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From you know who... The poll results scare the JEEPERS out of me. - start - WASHINGTON, DC -- Americans who want to fight terrorism by mandating Taliban-style "special identification" for Arab-Americans, by allowing police to randomly search (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) Holy Toledo. I would have expected a peak of maybe 30% for the ID question (still frightening). That poll was done on 14-15 sep, I really hope the percentage has dropped (a lot) in the last week and a bit. Man. That means half the people (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) That *is* kind of scary. It should serve as an indication of how fundamental the crisis of such thinking is, that groups from the far-right *and* the far-left are willing to work together with a broad spectrum of groups in between to oppose (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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"Mr L F Braun" <braunli1@pilot.msu.edu> wrote in message news:GK7G2o.7z@lugnet.com... (...) . and I thought I was cynical. I think the "war" is all about GWB overreacting. The problem is that he has now painted himself into a corner. Calling this a (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) <snipped text of news article> Uh-oh. A sign of the Apocalypse: I agree with Larry. =o Seriously, though, I hope the people who answered the poll were just not thinking straight. If not, there are more stupid people in this country than I (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) Agreed, agreed... (...) Well I've just come off (or maybe still am in) a huge row with ROSCO about semantics around "pacifist" (I still don't get what point he is trying to make) so maybe this is semantics but I am not sure I understand. Why (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) I'll take a shot at trying to figure out what LFB meant... I think what is being suggested is that the term "war" is cheapened when used in the manner it has been for the last three decades or so. I am referring to phrases like the "war on (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes: <snip> Thanks for that perspective, all good points! I agree that the term war has been cheapened by such inane uses as WoD. (you and I both know that you and I are both opposed to it, anyway, no (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) It *is* semantics. But it's very important semantics. When you hear "war" today, do you think most Americans instantly think "Oh, war. Tripoli, 1801-1805. Of course." Or do they think WWII, Vietnam, or the Gulf? I'd bet dollars to donuts (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) [snippage] Yeah, you got it, and then a few additional angles that I wasn't thinking about at that moment, but which apply very well. Nicely said! I'll go for that. :D LFB (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) Larry, Sorry for picking on this one point that in general I agree with. I just wanted to get your (and others) opinions on a hypothetical situation. Lets say the Taliban is evil (I think Larry and I agree that it is) and a clear connection (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) Any right that the ruling powers of Afganistan had to accuse us of being interventionist and meddling have been forfieted by commiting an act of war against this country. They may have a problem with our support of Israel, they may have a (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) Important clarification: The link, however strongly we feel about it, is only equivalent to the Taliban "committing an act of war" by the US definition of that term. The link is still under dispute. You can't say that the Taliban committed an (...) (23 years ago, 25-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) While I agree in general, I don't think thats what I was asking. My main worry is that the Arab/Islamic nations outside of Afganistan will see this as meddling in another Islamic nations business and trying to push our ways on them. I could (...) (23 years ago, 26-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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Hello Larry, (...) To me, it seems they are also islamistic, so whatever government they could come up with will probably not be fair to our standards. The question of course is: Does it have to? Or is it enough they don't support international (...) (23 years ago, 26-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) Barbary Pirates indeed. Lets start by looking at the bigger picture: (URL) the 1st para: ==+== The attempt to make out that the suicide terrorists had somehow declared war and that America and its allies were entitled to wage war in return is (...) (23 years ago, 27-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) It sounds like you are falling for GWB's empty rhetoric. Lets assume ObL did do this. Look at his motives (not his unjustifiable actions) and you will see that he actually wants a little more freedom and liberty in places like "Palestine" and (...) (23 years ago, 27-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes: <snip> (...) Amazing. Ignorance is Truth, eh? If those of us on the side of freedom think that the nutters who want to do some of these things are a small minority we are less likely to do anything to (...) (23 years ago, 27-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) Ignorance is bliss. I said "can" not "is". (...) Even take their guns away? Scott A (23 years ago, 27-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) ignore the comment below. I mis-read the comment above. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 28-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GK77vG.7wL@lugnet.com... (...) Hmmm....didn't a certain European country during the 1930s adopt a similar stratergy for Jews? You see where I'm going with the arguement to this.... (...) (23 years ago, 28-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Scott A" <eh105jb@mx1.pair.com> wrote in message news:GK7ptp.Ftt@lugnet.com... <snip> (...) corner. (...) this. GWB even used the word "crusade" in one speech, which must have gone down well when translated for the Arab press. Using "war" was (...) (23 years ago, 28-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) <snip good list of possible alternatives> (...) It may be. Is it *just* to force a democratic election? I'm not sure. Maybe not. But the will of the general people has been ignored in Afghanistan for a long time. Should we have left W. Germany (...) (23 years ago, 30-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Special Identification for Arab Americans?
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(...) I haven't really worked out intervention for myself yet. I think a certain amount is necessary. Obviously the way to reach a better understanding is to evaluate the intervention based on first principles. I think this is where we would find (...) (23 years ago, 1-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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