 | | Still more perspectives on the tragedy
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Hello everybody, after my first, spontaneous posting I realized that a lot of discussion was already going on. I decided it would be a good idea to read through some of it, before I post again myself. In a sense, this posting is an answer to many (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) Well, yes. Since this is named in the string (how DO they choose these names anyway??) that also included "infinite reach", the 98 cruise missile Afghan extravaganza, which by the way showed that our reach is pityingly finite, I find it quite (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Jerry Falwell blames feminists, gays, lesbians, ACLU, others...
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Hello Asher, hello everybody, (...) I can see that even in the US, the term Christianity is not a registered trademark, so you can't sue him for tradmark infringement. But ... maybe you have too free a country if you can't put him to court for other (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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(...) Hm... to a certain extent, this is interesting, but academic... A link not too far away from ones posted here(1), analysing Bush compared to Churchill talked about Churchills brutal honesty, but then discussed how Churchill did not feel the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Quotes from The Register
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Two interesting articles I dragged up. Good old Reg: (2 URLs) I've commented before that I think this military operation could go disastrously wrong. I'm not offering these as 'evidence', just as interesting editorial. Discuss if you will. Jason J (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) Well, I use it in exchange for words like "actually", which is supposed to be a usage problem. But what is one to do? That's the colloquial usage of the word... On a more serious note, is no one going to take issue with what I have proffered (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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(...) I suppose "Operation Give Peace A Chance" would be more to your liking? Of course the designation is hyperbolic, and of course it's over-the-top, and of course it's propaganda-ish. That's the whole point of giving the operation a designation. (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Sorry--your knowledge of scripture is more complete than mine. I'll need to re-check my sources. (...) That's not a bad point, but it is a fundamental sticking point for some people. The notion that the OT was a book predicting Christ's (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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"Bill Farkas" <wolfe65@msn.com> wrote in message news:GJy3I8.1C4@lugnet.com... (...) Rumours still persist that the fourth plane might have been shot down This from todays Independent, a quality UK broadsheet. (URL) to the report, the US government (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) A bullet through every green turban you see. (Or whatever.) I'm not advocating this action, merely answering the question. Chris (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Infinite Justice
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Now, see... this is the kind of stuff that I shouldn't be reading, mostly because it makes sense. Ignorance is strength... this is excatly what my current pastor has been preaching lately, not in those terms of course. Oh, well, what can be done? I (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) To be more precise, evolution is a fact, just as gravity is a fact. The Darwinian model of natural selection is an evolutionary theory--that is, a theory that hopes to explain the process by which the fact of evolution occurs. (...) But no one (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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Todd graduated from Wheaton College, which is literally a few blocks down the road from me. He also attended Wheaton Academy, my high school. (www.wheatonacademy.org) The website has a picture of him and a paragraph as well. At Gordon College last (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) "Akin" in what sense? That they are fundamentalist Muslims? That they abuse human rights? (...) Hard yes, impossible no. Ending Soviet communism was hard. Ending apartheid was hard. (...) Perhaps policy is a better word; a liberal policy (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Building speculation (was: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) I'd say they're all wet. A building of that form factor and height HAD to be at least as much steel as it was. Increasing the concrete ratio would mean the building would not be able to hold up its own weight. This general theory has been (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Info about the towers and their architect
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(...) Indeed. They made me cry again. I've been crying a lot lately. Thanks for that excellent reference, Eric. (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Tale of bravery from fourth plane
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I was listening to the radio tonight and heard Joe Stowell, president of Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, speaking about a young man who was a college classmate of his daughter and son-in-law. His name was Todd Beamer, he was one of the passengers (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) The "fact" side of this argument is based on Biblical "fact", but it requires "faith" to trust that what is in the Bible is indeed "fact". I suppose I can condede your point. (...) I can think of only two miracles that were not personally (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins Debate
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(...) That's exactly what I meant. It wasn't an argument; I was just restating the fact that evolution is, indeed, a theory. (...) I wasn't claiming that it necessarily would. I was merely guarding against the possibility of anyone claiming it as (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Building speculation (was: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) concrete (...) The suggestion was not that the concrete would've survived the fire, but less of the building would've been directly involved in the fire, and maybe that little bit extra surviving support may have stopped the catastrophic (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) ROSCO more concrete would have not made a difference.The building withstood the impacts.The fuel melted both the steel and concrete at the point of impact which caused the floors weight above them to collapse the rest of the structure. Mafia? (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) week... (...) Someone on a local Australian show last night brought up the notion that US buildings (including WTC) using more steel[1] may have been a factor in the collapse. I figure things got pretty hot there for a little while, so (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Infinite Justice
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Infinite Justice. Has anyone noticed the peculiar nature of those words? It sounds very like what was imagined as a perpetual war in the essay within a novel, "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" by Emmanual Goldstein that resides (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A couple more articles on the civil liberties angle
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(...) could have been obtained by the now highly desired relaxing of individual rights of privacy. I guess following up on 6 years old intelligence leads from the Phillipines would have been too easy? This article also contains the following (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) Sorry, just saw this, can't say my attention was focused on LUGNET last week... The architect of the twin towers was Minoru Yamasaki. You can read more about him and the Twin Towers here... (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | A couple more articles on the civil liberties angle
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(URL) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) It would be *extremely* difficult to crash a 767 travelling at 500km/h at the lower 20 floors of any building in such a city. That is possibly part of the reason they chose the WTC towers - they were so much higher than surrounding buildings. (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | A request for peace.
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Today, I emailed the following letter to the president, hoping he would listen. -Alfred -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 September 19, 2001 Alfred J. Speredelozzi, Jr. 2670 Fenwick Court Ann Arbor, MI 48104 The Honorable George W. Bush (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate) !
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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Okay, I'm going to jump onto this one just this once... (...) No God in there if you're not a religious person. (...) And all good religious people know this and STILL need this tragical event to wake them up? (...) Whe quoting the bible, everyone (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer
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(...) Also, what would have been the outcome had the terrorists targeted the base of the buildings? Had the collisions occurred in the lower 20 floors, most folks would have been trapped inside, and toppling may have occurred. (...) Indeed. -Rob. (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Let's be honest about this--it's *entirely* based on faith, and not at all on fact. And that's where the issue ends, for many people. (...) Yes and no. They are capable of presenting a faithful account of their own recollections and of their (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) I find a quote of Benjamin Franklin's expresses my views on the subject. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." It's a bit harsh, but I agree with it, and with Larry, (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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<snip> (...) But the Taliban are akin to the terrorists. It is just coincidence that they also happen to rule Afghanistan. (...) In Afghanistan, going against the government gets you dead. Pretty hard to go against that. (...) Who's plan? the (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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Oh boy! Someone asked for a nitpicker. Here I am! I'd so hate to disappoint. <geek> (...) In the case of Arabic, because it's Romanized, the LC and Chicago standards are that in-name particles like "ibn" or "al" (I would not be surprised if "bin (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) The Somalia analogy holds for a decade ago, I think, when several factions had a more or less equal hold on different parts of the country. Now I'd say Afghanistan has "stabilised" as a decentralised theocracy. (...) First make it clear that (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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(...) There is indeed the money angle. bin Laden's(1) organization runs on money, and his rather large personal fortune is kept in institutions in the west. Once it is proven that he's involved in this (or other) terrorist actions, (2) it may be (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Agreed. I wasn't keen on the "nation building" exercise we tried in Somalia, it failed dismally. But maybe that's what is required here. I have no idea. What's the alternative though? I am *opposed* to just going in and indiscriminately (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Correct. I don't want civil rights lessened or destroyed across the board. (...) I suspect you are reading things correctly, unfortunately. That doesn't make what happens "right" though, as I've said before, just because a majority votes (or (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Taliban... some things to mull over
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(...) Come on now. Did you read the article in the link Larry gave? Have you read anything about the Taliban? Among the things that make them "evil"... - You can be imprisoned for shaving your beard (Or even having it short). - It is not only (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Sorting Air Safety (Re: Rooting out nests of snakes and destroying them)
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(...) Is it time to put an end to this? Could Scott and Larry be banned from replying to each other for a trial period at least? just an idea, DaveL (23 years ago, 19-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general)
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