 | | | | | | |
| |
|
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is iconic
links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB, BZPower,
1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet, BrickShelf,
LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and see
what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a link to it,
solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that goes.
Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally rules.
--Todd
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
So what was all this about?
http://news.lugnet.com/build/?n=14522&t=i&v=a
I have two words to explain why some people are getting disatisfied with LUGNET:
“membership packet”
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Dwight Abernathy wrote:
| |
So what was all this about?
http://news.lugnet.com/build/?n=14522&t=i&v=a
I have two words to explain why some people are getting disatisfied with
LUGNET: “membership packet”
|
Oh please. Todd asked for some constructive input and volunteers to help improve
on LUGNET, and you totally sidestep the point of his post and use this as an
opportunity to take a pot shot at it.
If you want to point out problems, I for one would appreciate it if you do so in
a constructive, polite manner.
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Dwight Abernathy wrote:
| |
So what was all this about?
http://news.lugnet.com/build/?n=14522&t=i&v=a
I have two words to explain why some people are getting disatisfied with
LUGNET: “membership packet”
|
|
snip
| |
If you want to point out problems, I for one would appreciate it if you do so
in a constructive, polite manner.
-Tim
|
Besides, Susan Rich Green has apologized about this subject on many occassions
for the Membership packetts no going as originally envisioned.
Give them a break, I have a gut feeling that many of us Lugnetters have forgiven
them as well.
As for the LUGNET home page, I would like to suggest:
Minifig’s with that Brick Fest 2003 style Logo, or simular portrayals of chat
symbolized by a caption cloud and a brick or Lugnet symbol in the middle;
bringing people together. That idea should stay and possibly be expanded upon.
Like mini-figs from all continents brought together and connected by the brick
in the middle of the word cloud. Vital and original. Primal brick chat.
Also a better (looking or styled) link to Brickshelf and a few other focal
points.
Make sure to include new jumps to the lugnet.org areas, so we can better direct
people to the places people and localities closest or of most interest to them.
This way new people can join local lugs easier.
Infact we should desing icons for this.
Make CLSOTW, a monthly thing; CLSOTM. Less work, I guess. Either way, I thought
cool site of the xyz should stay. Perhaps just made easier for all concerned. I
promise to try and vote regularly. I know we lacked in this at times.
OH OH! add a featured MOC to the LUGNET Home page!!!! Why not! Could be cool,
and it can show case the abilities of our fine members so it really can make an
impression on visitors. Like a super big Lego Stego by Henry Lim or a tiny
sculpture like Jon Palmer’s super cool Sci-Brick Match-Bot Award.
Or a *cough *coughsupermechabyerrrrhhhrrrrricsssssaaaaaaawwwww*coughfie *cough
x-csuse
IMHO.
e
Good luck.
and thank you
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
As for the LUGNET home page, I would like to suggest:
Minifig’s with that Brick Fest 2003 style Logo, or simular portrayals of chat
symbolized by a caption cloud and a brick or Lugnet symbol in the middle;
bringing people together. That idea should stay and possibly be expanded
upon. Like mini-figs from all continents brought together and connected by
the brick in the middle of the word cloud. Vital and original. Primal brick
chat.
|
How about using different styles of minifigs to represent different themes? A
Classic Space minifig for lugnet.space; a knight for lugnet.castle; etc.
| |
Also a better (looking or styled) link to Brickshelf and a few other focal
points.
|
Yes--LUGNet should be more of a portal to the other online community sites. I
think that prominently featured on the homepage should be things like:
- Find a LUG or LTC in your area
- Browse other LEGO sites (Brickshelf, Peeron, BZPower, LEGOFan.net, BotB,
- Places to buy LEGO sets and parts (shop.lego.com, bricklink,
In addition to the LUGNET-hosted content. Each of those categories could be a
graphic on the LUGNET home page, which leads to a page listing all the resources
in that category.
I think overall LUGNET is too insular, without enough linking to other sites.
The web is all about links between sites.
| |
Make sure to include new jumps to the lugnet.org areas, so we can better
direct people to the places people and localities closest or of most interest
to them. This way new people can join local lugs easier.
Infact we should desing icons for this.
|
Yes! Lots of icons! Design an icon for each newsgroup, even?
| |
Make CLSOTW, a monthly thing; CLSOTM. Less work, I guess. Either way, I
thought cool site of the xyz should stay. Perhaps just made easier for all
concerned. I promise to try and vote regularly. I know we lacked in this at
times.
|
Good idea. Also people don’t always visit the home page, so they don’t remember
to vote. Make it possible to get an email nagging us to vote.
| |
OH OH! add a featured MOC to the LUGNET Home page!!!! Why not! Could be cool,
and it can show case the abilities of our fine members so it really can make
an impression on visitors. Like a super big Lego Stego by Henry Lim or a tiny
sculpture like Jon Palmer’s super cool Sci-Brick Match-Bot Award.
|
Great idea! Instead of having a vote though, let’s have a MOC randomly selected
from a pool of submissions. Each builder can submit their own works to the
pool, which someone would have to moderate (to prevent something inappropriate
getting selected).
--Bill.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, William R. Ward wrote:
| |
| |
Make CLSOTW, a monthly thing; CLSOTM. Less work, I guess. Either way, I
thought cool site of the xyz should stay. Perhaps just made easier for all
concerned. I promise to try and vote regularly. I know we lacked in this at
times.
|
Good idea. Also people don’t always visit the home page, so they don’t
remember to vote. Make it possible to get an email nagging us to vote.
|
IMO, CLSOT(whatever) should have it’s own newsgroup for announcing reviews,
suggesting sites, encouraging voting, and discussing winners.
--Bram
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> IMO, CLSOT(whatever) should have it's own newsgroup for announcing reviews,
> suggesting sites, encouraging voting, and discussing winners.¬ --Bram
That's an excellent idea!
--
Best regards,
/Tobbe
<http://www.lotek.nu>
(remove SPAM when e-mailing)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Bill Ward wrote in message ...
> Yes! Lots of icons! Design an icon for each newsgroup, even?
Icons ONLY if they all have some kind of text explanation as well - which
kinda makes them redundant. One person's intuitive icon is another person's
"huh?". I frequently find myself baffled by website icons which are
presumably supposed to be easier to understand.
Kevin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Farmhouse kit: http://www.lionsgatemodels.com/cat-farm.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
LEGO TOWN PLANNING information:
http://www.lionsgatemodels.com/COntent/Townplan/townplan.htm
BrickLink Lego parts store: http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=Kevinw1
The Guild of Bricksmiths(TM): http://www.bricksmiths.com
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Dwight Abernathy wrote:
| |
So what was all this about?
http://news.lugnet.com/build/?n=14522&t=i&v=a
I have two words to explain why some people are getting disatisfied with
LUGNET: “membership packet”
|
I’ve been a ‘member’ for a while and I couldn’t give a rip for a ‘packet’. The
pros of LUGNET by far outweigh the “at the time was a good idea but now that
it’s only Todd and time marches on so, eh, whatrya gonna do?” missing membership
packet...
If folks are that concerned about the lack of receiving something in the mail
when they joined, then, well, I don’t know about their appreciation of LUGNET.
Ask not what LUGNET can do for you, ask what you can do for LUGNET ;)
Dave K
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Dwight Abernathy <abernat@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So what was all this about?
> http://news.lugnet.com/build/?n=14522&t=i&v=a
> I have two words to explain why some people are getting disatisfied with
> LUGNET: "membership packet"
I don't get it. Does Legofan.net have better membership packets?
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
| |
I don’t get it. Does Legofan.net have better membership packets?
|
ZING!
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Dwight Abernathy wrote:
| |
So what was all this about?
http://news.lugnet.com/build/?n=14522&t=i&v=a
I have two words to explain why some people are getting disatisfied with
LUGNET: “membership packet”
|
While we’re on this topic: To this day I have not become a member because I
simply can’t get past having to enter my postal address into the enrollment form
for LUGNET (presumably to get the mythical membership packet). I do not like to
give out personal information willy-nilly, and it bothers me that this
information is required for enrollment in an *online* community. I’m not
interested in getting anything in the mail (I already get far more of that stuff
than I need). Yeah, I know a lot of people are real lax in this regard (about
giving away private info) and would gladly supply social security number,
mother’s maiden name, drivers license, etc. to get logged on, but I don’t see it
that way, not in this age of identity theft and hackable servers. So, as a
rule, I try to give away as little personal info as possible, even if that means
sometimes I have to forgo certain activities.
Mark (sorry for the rant)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and
see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a link
to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that
goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally
rules.
--Todd
|
This has been on my list for awhile, I guess I’ll speak up...
BL has a cool feature for the discussion forum. It has a calender showing posts
by date: http://www.bricklink.com/calendar.asp?v=F
If I’m out of town for a weekend, it makes it very easy to pick up where I left
off.
Thanks,
Julie
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Julie Krenz <dkrenz@mc.net> wrote:
> BL has a cool feature for the discussion forum. It has a calender
> showing posts by date: http://www.bricklink.com/calendar.asp?v=F
> If I'm out of town for a weekend, it makes it very easy to pick up where
> I left off.
What Lugnet should *really* do is keep track of read and unread posts,
like a proper newsreader. Even better than a calendar. But that's a major
change that's going to take a while to get implemented.
Not that there's anything wrong with the calendar idea -- basically an
extension of <http://news.lugnet.com/news/traffic/>.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Julie Krenz <dkrenz@mc.net> wrote:
> > BL has a cool feature for the discussion forum. It has a calender
> > showing posts by date: http://www.bricklink.com/calendar.asp?v=F
> > If I'm out of town for a weekend, it makes it very easy to pick up where
> > I left off.
>
> What Lugnet should *really* do is keep track of read and unread posts,
> like a proper newsreader. Even better than a calendar. But that's a major
> change that's going to take a while to get implemented.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with the calendar idea -- basically an
> extension of <http://news.lugnet.com/news/traffic/>.
We've got something kind of like that over at BZPower too... one of the features
that the members really seem to like is "Today's Hot Topics" on the front page.
It links to the most posted-in threads of the last 24 hours, updated hourly.
There are all sorts of little extras that would definitely add value for lots of
different visitors to Lugnet. I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up
with.
- Kelly
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.admin.general, Kelly McKiernan wrote:
> In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > Julie Krenz <dkrenz@mc.net> wrote:
> > > BL has a cool feature for the discussion forum. It has a calender
> > > showing posts by date: http://www.bricklink.com/calendar.asp?v=F
> > > If I'm out of town for a weekend, it makes it very easy to pick up where
> > > I left off.
> >
> > What Lugnet should *really* do is keep track of read and unread posts,
> > like a proper newsreader. Even better than a calendar. But that's a major
> > change that's going to take a while to get implemented.
> >
> > Not that there's anything wrong with the calendar idea -- basically an
> > extension of <http://news.lugnet.com/news/traffic/>.
>
> We've got something kind of like that over at BZPower too... one of the features
> that the members really seem to like is "Today's Hot Topics" on the front page.
> It links to the most posted-in threads of the last 24 hours, updated hourly.
Having a hot topics module would be a great addition.
Also, the LUGNET Traffic page (link at the top right corner) shows you which
groups are hot, but not which topics are hot. The Top Stories is determined
using the (member) Spotlight feature (I believe it takes in other factors, like
whether or not it was posted to .announce, and how recent it was).
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
|
Change is good sometimes - and seeing that LUGNET hasn’t had any major aesthetic
changes in a while, perhaps it’s time to “freshen up.”
I have a poor imagination when it comes to dreaming up creative new web
appearances, but I know my share of HTML. If there are others that are my
inverse out there, I’d be happy to lend a hand where I can.
Having just completed my schooling in graphic design (with a supplement
regarding printed media such as magazines), this interests me mightily.
-Mike
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and
see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a link
to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that
goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally
rules.
--Todd
|
Hi all,
I can’t offer my html knowledge - it’s only poor. But I like to suggest some
ideas following up Todd’s ideas. An umbrella on a very first level might really
be helpful. So users might got the chance to go their way while starting at
lugnet.com.
If someone needs parts and set info, go to peeron, guide.lugnet, brickshelf,
brickset .. If someone wants online interaction with other fans, he/she should
be guided to the variour lugnet newsgroups and other internatinal boards. If
someone needs information about community issues, he/she might find the calender
of local/global events .. If someone needs building ideas, he/she could follow
up to bricksonthebrain.com, ldraw.org, etc. If someone wants to shop, go to
bricklink, ...
If you first dorp in, a selection of “your” language might be very helpful.
Probably only on that first level. That might help to get an overview. As said,
I can’t type code to realise this, but I might help with the translation into
German.
As others mentioned allready, a follow up of recent stories, galleries,
additions to peeron/brickshelf/etc. would be nice.
What about a counter on threads to show how often a posting is read in total?
The German forum around computer issues http://www.spotlight.de offers such a
feature. “This post has been viewed XX times.”
And: keep it simple, not to much flash or java script. Some companies might
block these features.
Just some of my thoughts ...
-Holger (HoMa)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Holger Matthes wrote:
| |
If someone needs parts and set info, go to peeron, guide.lugnet,
brickshelf, brickset .. If someone wants online interaction with other
fans, he/she should be guided to the variour lugnet newsgroups and other
internatinal boards. If someone needs information about community issues,
he/she might find the calender of local/global events .. If someone needs
building ideas, he/she could follow up to bricksonthebrain.com, ldraw.org,
etc. If someone wants to shop, go to bricklink, ...
|
Ya, exactly! Some kind of attributes grid or “help me locate” or “what’s
out there” layout is needed.
| |
If you first dorp in, a selection of “your” language might be very
helpful. Probably only on that first level. That might help to get an
overview. As said, I can’t type code to realise this, but I might help
with the translation into German.
|
Excellent, excellent, excellent idea. Yes! The homepage ought to have several
languages available.
| |
What about a counter on threads to show how often a posting is read in
total?
|
That could be something for the LUGNET News homepage,
but is probably a bit too specific for the main
homepage.
--Todd
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Holger Matthes wrote: • (snip)
Ya, exactly! Some kind of attributes grid or “help me locate” or “what’s
out there” layout is needed.
|
I agree.
| |
| |
If you first dorp in, a selection of “your” language might be very
helpful. Probably only on that first level. That might help to get an
overview. As said, I can’t type code to realise this, but I might help
with the translation into German.
|
Excellent, excellent, excellent idea. Yes! The homepage ought to have
several languages available.
|
Great idea! I could help with the translation to French. (more seriously than
I did for “schleim” at PDX with John Neal! ;D)
| |
| |
What about a counter on threads to show how often a posting is read in
total?
|
|
That would be interesting.
Pierre
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
(snirp)
| |
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
|
(snorp)
Whatever you do, don’t replace the super-awesome Escheristic logo.
Further, I’ll voice my opinion that the homepage looks just fine and a complete
overhaul isn’t going to bring in any new members. Lotsa effort for nuttin’.
Ain’t broke, don’t fix, etc.
And why showcase the affilates so much? What about a table fulla “Friends of
LUGNET” graphics in the sidebar below the Top Stories? Wouldn’t that be good
enough?
If you absolutely MUST change it, then what about nothing but scads of cartoons
like MY homepage? :o)
--Dave
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Dave Lovelace wrote:
| |
Whatever you do, don’t replace the super-awesome Escheristic logo.
|
Ya, that’s gotta stay.
| |
Further, I’ll voice my opinion that the homepage looks just fine and a
complete overhaul isn’t going to bring in any new members. Lotsa effort
for nuttin’. Ain’t broke, don’t fix, etc.
|
It may not be broken to you, who are familiar with it and have been using
it for years...but it’s been pointed out by many that it can be quite
confusing for first-time visitors.
| |
And why showcase the affilates so much?
|
Well, LUGNET was created to unite the LEGO community online, not to segment
it. The current homepage feels rather isolationist. How many clicks from
the homepage does it take you to find 1000steine.de? How many clicks to
find BZPower? Sites like these should be one or at most two clicks away.
Try to keep in mind that LUGNET is often the first or second LEGO site
that many people entering the community see. It should show what the
community as a whole has to offer.
| |
What about a table fulla “Friends of LUGNET” graphics in the sidebar
below the Top Stories?
|
I actually think that the Top Stories box should be removed from the
main LUGNET homepage. It’s redundant with the News homepage. Our
intention two years ago when we first had the ability to add Spotlight
boxes to sidebars was to remove it from the main homepage after people
had gotten used to finding it in the News homepage sidebar (say, after
a transitional period of one week), but deleting it from the main
homepage got lost in the shuffle.
LUGNET doesn’t equal news/forums. LUGNET has news and forums, and the
homepage should make it very easy for everyone to find the news homepage,
but the main homepage shouldn’t over-emphasize LUGNET News at the expense
of the bigger picture, namely that LUGNET is a network of people.
--Todd
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
it’s been pointed out by many that it can be quite
confusing for first-time visitors.
|
I agree. I don’t know exactly how easy the procedures are in the meantime, but
to register a few years ago was somehow odd for me :-)
Translations are needed, at least for a “How-To-Post”-Site. As for German, I
know that there were offers to do so in loc.de (That’s why I crossposted to
there, feel free to remove in replies).
| |
Well, LUGNET was created to unite the LEGO community online, not to segment
it. The current homepage feels rather isolationist. How many clicks from
the homepage does it take you to find 1000steine.de? How many clicks to
find BZPower? Sites like these should be one or at most two clicks away.
|
I adopt this self-criticism for 1000steine.de. The problems are true and the
same on 1000steine.de, it’s nice that you take it up.
| |
I actually think that the Top Stories box should be removed from the
main LUGNET homepage.
|
I disagree. The fastest way for me to go to LUGNET is type in “lugnet.com”. I’m
always starting the LUGNET adventures at your Homepage and the Top Stories Box
is perfect to show me the latest important threads, even if I’m not in the
mailinglist for the corresponding groups.
However, I’m sure that people come up with many good ideas, and you’re able to
implement them to keep LUGNET as useful as it always has been.
Leg Godt!
René
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
René Hoffmeister wrote:
> In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
> > Well, LUGNET was created to unite the LEGO community online, not to segment
> > it. The current homepage feels rather isolationist. How many clicks from
> > the homepage does it take you to find 1000steine.de? How many clicks to
> > find BZPower? Sites like these should be one or at most two clicks away.
> I adopt this self-criticism for 1000steine.de. The problems are true and the
> same on 1000steine.de, it's nice that you take it up.
How about an universal umbrella page which can be shared by all sites
involved?
A common logo (A Fabuland umbrella, perhaps?), available for all,
linking either to a central page or a current copy on the local sites'
server, which in turn links with a maximum of two clicks to any commonly
used sites on topic, maybe even with deep links to the individual sites
areas.
For example, 1000steine.de could be listed with a link to the home page
under "Eupopean Community Site", but also under "Discussion Forums" with
a deep link to the 1000Steine forum.
Small, but still recognizable logos of the individual sites and
optionally flags indicating the main language could also be employed.
As this umbrella should be a universal resource, commercial sites should
not be excluded. Only that they should be clearly marked as such, and it
should be no selling of advertising space, but a mark of regognition to
the companies involved, agreed upon by the board that organises the
umbrella page (I had such sites in mind as hitec.com, which sells
special RCX add-ons or technik-lpe.de, who sell DACTA stuff).
An important issue would be a very linear, straight-forward and
unclobbered design, although optional design features like bubblehelp
could be employed to deliver short additional information about the
target sites (mayby a magnifying glass icon next to the link to get the
help bubble?).
Well, just an idea that sprang to my mind...
Yours, Christian
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Christian Treczoks wrote:
> For example, 1000steine.de could be listed with a link to the home page
> under "Eupopean Community Site", but also under "Discussion Forums" with
> a deep link to the 1000Steine forum.
Sorry, don't want to troll/flame, but I wouldn't call 1000steine
'European'. German, yes. European, no. Althought I'm living in the
neighborhood, I can't grok a word from that site.
That's why I support WorldLUG/LEGOFan stuff, they aim perfectly in
multiview/single-data world.
I'd be happy to provide czech translations of any interesting {open}
site, although our market is small {no money, LEGO's
incompetence/ignorance}...
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jindrich Kubec wrote:
> Sorry, don't want to troll/flame, but I wouldn't call 1000steine
> 'European'. German, yes. European, no.
Sorry too, but that's nitpicking.
Would you use the universal language of the UN for LFnet/WorldLUG? Rhetorical
question, no answer needed.
Leg Godt!
René
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"René Hoffmeister" wrote:
> Sorry too, but that's nitpicking.
>
> Would you use the universal language of the UN for LFnet/WorldLUG? Rhetorical
> question, no answer needed.
Nope. It's as 'european' as are american stuff is 'world'.
For me and _most_ of the younger people here it could be in swahili with
the very same effect.
There's no way around than to use english (world) or regional sites.
It's arrogant to pretend that german site is 'european'.
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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In lugnet.general, Jindroush jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz wrote:
| |
Nope. It’s as ‘european’ as are american stuff is ‘world’.
For me and most of the younger people here it could be in swahili with
the very same effect.
There’s no way around than to use english (world) or regional sites.
It’s arrogant to pretend that german site is ‘european’.
|
Very kind of you :-(
Please have a look at the homepage as of today and count the flags of the
countries: http://www.festum.de/1000steine/
18 MOCs from Germany
10 MOCs from outside Germany
(4 MOCs from Denmark, 3 MOCs from Switzerland, 1 MOC from Sweden, 1 MOC from
Belgium, 1 MOC from USA)
Or all ISCC entries (not all entries public yet):
http://www.festum.de/1000steine/iscc/iscc3/entries/entries.php
34 MOCs from Germany
19 MOCs from outside Germany (5 MOCs from Denmark, 4 MOC from USA, 3 MOCs from
Switzerland, 2 MOC from Sweden, 2 MOCs from Italy, 1 MOC from Belgium, 1 MOC
from The Netherlands, 1 MOC from UK)
Now tell me again whether 1000steine.de is German only or not.
We have several european members there, you can post in the Forum even in
English (and you’ll receive your answers in English too), also German is a
common second language in Europe...
However, IMO it’s not the language that makes a site Local, European or
worldwide, but the visitors and users who are contributing.
Nevertheless: Leg Godt!
René
PS: I don’t know why you hang on Christians sentence about 1000steine.de being
European, also I don’t spread this thought officially; I only stand up for “my”
website.
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"René Hoffmeister" wrote:
> Now tell me again whether 1000steine.de is German only or not.
I still think it's german. The majority of content, whole web interface,
99% of forums etc.
> However, IMO it's not the language that makes a site Local, European or
> worldwide, but the visitors and users who are contributing.
This is where our opinions are clearly different.
I think it's the visitors who can make use of your site. And,
definitely, non-german-speakers can't sufficiently use your site.
> PS: I don't know why you hang on Christians sentence about 1000steine.de being
> European
He said:
'1000steine.de could be listed with a link to the home page under
"Eupopean Community Site"'
I just had the urge to point out there may be people who may think it's
not true {as they think that Europe is not Germany+France plus few funny
little countries around <g> ).
> also I don't spread this thought officially; I only stand up for "my"
> website.
Whole this subthread is just a misunderstanding - I don't think anything
wrong about your site. It's probably {can't check} very nice and popular
site about LEGO. Just not for me. ;)
Regards,
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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Hello!
> I still think it's german. The majority of content, whole web interface,
> 99% of forums etc.
That's true.
> > However, IMO it's not the language that makes a site Local, European or
> > worldwide, but the visitors and users who are contributing.
> This is where our opinions are clearly different.
> I think it's the visitors who can make use of your site. And,
> definitely, non-german-speakers can't sufficiently use your site.
...like non-English-speakers can't sufficiently use any English site. Of course
there are more non-German-speakers than non-English-speakers in the world :-)
> > PS: I don't know why you hang on Christians sentence about 1000steine.de being
> > European
> He said:
> '1000steine.de could be listed with a link to the home page under
> "Eupopean Community Site"'
> I just had the urge to point out there may be people who may think it's
> not true {as they think that Europe is not Germany+France plus few funny
> little countries around <g> ).
Now, that's kind of a political statement that does not belong to this thread
and to this web site at all.
You can say: 1000steine.de is a (one) European Community Site, because Germany
clearly is located in Europe. There are other European Community Sites as well,
like www.lowlug.nl for Dutch-speakers. I would not say 1000steine.de is THE
European Community Site. (And yes, there are many non-German vistors and members
at 1000steine.de who come from throughout the world. That makes it an
international site.)
Bye
Jojo
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Hello !
Salut !
As you are speaking about european community, I was wondering if some people
here knows this website (Eurobricks) ? What do you think of this opportunity ?
(create a kind of european Lugnet ?)
<www.eurobricks.com>
Comme vous parlez de communauté européenne, je me demande si quelqu'un ici
connait ce site (Eurobricks) ? Que pensez-vous de cette opportunité ? (créer un
genre de Lugnet européen ?)
As you can see, I (try to) write in English, but I add a translation (French -
my native language). Do you think this kind of behaviour may be useful for
people not speaking english very well ? I mean it may appeal some not so good
english speakers but french (or german, dutch...) speakers to the main
newsgroups and not only loc.de, loc.it...
Comme vous pouvez le voir, j'écris (j'essaye) en anglais, mais j'ajoute une
traduction (Français, ma langue natale). Pensez-vous que ce type de comportement
peut être utile pour ceux qui ne parlent pas bien l'anglais ? Je veux dire cela
pourrait amener des non parfaitement anglophone à venir s'exprimer sur les
newsgroup principaux et pas seulement sur loc.de ou loc.it.
I have no precise answers, that's just thoughts and nobody to talk with.
Je n'ai pas de réponse précise, ce ne sont que des pensées et je n'ai personne
avec qui en discuter.
Jouez bien !
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Jindroush wrote:
> Sorry, don't want to troll/flame, but I wouldn't call 1000steine
> 'European'. German, yes. European, no.
Well, to clarify this issue:
I called 1000steine.de an European site as it is indeed located in
Europe. Just in contrast to American sites, Asian sites, etc. I never
said that 1000steine.de should be the ultimate paneuropean solution to
all things LEGO.
I also mentioned that non-english sites could be marked with flags to
indicate their main language. So 1000steine.de would be a site located
and rooted in Europe, with its main language being German.
> Althought I'm living in the
> neighborhood, I can't grok a word from that site.
Babelfish.
> I'd be happy to provide czech translations of any interesting
> {open} site, although our market is small {no money, LEGO's
> incompetence/ignorance}...
Ok, so who keeps you from opening a site in czech?
Yours, Christian
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Christian Treczoks wrote:
> I called 1000steine.de an European site as it is indeed located in
> Europe. Just in contrast to American sites, Asian sites, etc. I never
> said that 1000steine.de should be the ultimate paneuropean solution to
> all things LEGO.
Yeah, I want to apologize again, I've read 'The European Site' (the
only) instead of 'An European Site' (one of).
> > Althought I'm living in the
> > neighborhood, I can't grok a word from that site.
> Babelfish.
Rather not, thank you ;-))))))))
Publisher and contentwise responsible:
René hoping master
Rose way 3
16727 upper shopkeepers
> > I'd be happy to provide czech translations of any interesting
> > {open} site, although our market is small {no money, LEGO's
> > incompetence/ignorance}...
> Ok, so who keeps you from opening a site in czech?
The audience is too small to make some full-fledged project and I refuse
to do half-things. So translating some big site is in my view the better
way.
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Well, LUGNET was created to unite the LEGO community online, not to segment
it. The current homepage feels rather isolationist.
|
Agreed. In the legofan.net thread there were several posts that sounded
offended that anyone would consider another location (posts positing LUGnet as
“THE” home for on-line LEGOdom, which ignored other huge sites, or people
arguing that other message boards were somehow illegitimate). I think it’s
healthy to promote that we are a portion of a network of AFOLs and
KFOLs--perhaps we are the largest portion of the English-speaking general-theme
adult fans, but that doesn’t mean we should isolate from other groups that have
higher kid populations, primary languages other than English, or are very
theme-specific.
| |
I actually think that the Top Stories box should be removed from the
main LUGNET homepage. It’s redundant with the News homepage.
|
I would disagree. Unless there is some serious, oft-updated content added to
the front page (e.g. admin-blog or rotating images), the Top Stories box is the
only reason I keep coming back to www.lugnet.com, rather than making
news.lugnet.com my preferred bookmark. If the front page becomes static, who
aside from brand new viewers cares what it looks like, because experience
members will go directly to their respective corners of LUGNET.
| |
LUGNET doesn’t equal news/forums. LUGNET has news and forums, and the
homepage should make it very easy for everyone to find the news homepage,
but the main homepage shouldn’t over-emphasize LUGNET News at the expense
of the bigger picture, namely that LUGNET is a network of people.
|
Yes, but. We are a network of people, but those people are networked primarily
by the forums. To my usage, LUGNET is made up of three things: --Forums
--Set guide
--CLSotW (currently defunct)
To a lesser extent I would say links page, but links are currently sporadic.
Different themes have current links in their sidebars, but the “Everything LEGO”
links page is sufficiently difficult to use (hard to sort, full of dead
links**). There are also ways to go through member pages and get links, but
these are also quite cumbersome to navigate.*** There are other underused
portions of LUGNET, like the ability to set up your own page. How many people
even reallize this or know how to do so? Perhaps this is an area where we could
really grow LUGNET. Polls are also relatively underutilized and could be made
more transparent to the newer posters. Are there other features I’m missing? If
so, they’re sufficiently in the shadows that a regular poster like me doesn’t
recall them off-hand.
- Is there a link anywere to www.lugnet.com/clsotw? I know that there hasn’t been a new selection in months, but this doesn’t mean that the archive isn’t still the best listing of LEGO fan sites on the web, but only for those of us who already know the url. Often when I’m looking for a cool site I remember I’ll skim through the archives to find the proper address. We should include a button somewhere on the front page that links to the archives, even if it is a while before new site selection is revived.
** Perhaps the links page could be totally revamped if we asked theme moderators
to submit their lists and someone could compile a master list of links. We
could also put a big announcement on the front page asking people to submit
their own, living links. Otherwise, someone would have to take the current
list and try every site to see what is alive and what is dead--a tedious job
when there are over 300 sites listed under “miscellaneous”. Also, when was
that page created anyway? I know my site isn’t on it, nor is the Brick
Testament (we went up about the same time 3 or so years ago). There has to
be a ton of great sites that are not included.
*** One programing suggestion. Currently if you go to members and list by name,
it comes up with a page that lists the alphabet at the top, but also loads
in the total list. This takes forever, and I’ve got a fast connection. If
someone is on dialup this member list is pretty much useless for anyone
below the A’s in the alphabet. It would speed things up considerably if
that first page just had the alphabet, and then when you clicked on a letter
you would link to a page with only those names starting with that letter (or
do A-C, D-F, etc). There could also be a “view all” option for those who
didn’t really want to see Kevin Zwicker anyway. (Just kidding, Kevin,
you’re just last on the list alphabetically, except for the O with the
umalot(sp?).)
Bruce
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
There are other underused
portions of LUGNET, like the ability to set up your own page. How many
people even reallize this or know how to do so? Perhaps this is an area
where we could really grow LUGNET.
|
Okay, I’m an idiot. There’s a link right there on the front page to “Build your
own web pages”. That said, however, this is still a largely unused feature of
LUGNET.
Bruce
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
There are other underused
portions of LUGNET, like the ability to set up your own page. How many
people even reallize this or know how to do so? Perhaps this is an area
where we could really grow LUGNET.
|
Okay, I’m an idiot. There’s a link right there on the front page to “Build
your own web pages”. That said, however, this is still a largely unused
feature of LUGNET.
|
I have used this feature, and I use MOCPages. I would
like to see LUGNET offer something more substantial such as MOCpages, or perhaps
Sean and Todd could morph something....
JOHN
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Well, LUGNET was created to unite the LEGO community online, not to segment
it. The current homepage feels rather isolationist.
|
Agreed. In the legofan.net thread there were several posts that sounded
offended that anyone would consider another location (posts positing LUGnet
as “THE” home for on-line LEGOdom, which ignored other huge sites, or people
arguing that other message boards were somehow illegitimate). I think it’s
healthy to promote that we are a portion of a network of AFOLs and
KFOLs--perhaps we are the largest portion of the English-speaking
general-theme adult fans, but that doesn’t mean we should isolate from other
groups that have higher kid populations, primary languages other than
English, or are very theme-specific.
|
Exactly.
| |
| |
I actually think that the Top Stories box should be removed from the
main LUGNET homepage. It’s redundant with the News homepage.
|
I would disagree. Unless there is some serious, oft-updated content added to
the front page (e.g. admin-blog or rotating images), the Top Stories box is
the only reason I keep coming back to www.lugnet.com, rather than making
news.lugnet.com my preferred bookmark. If the front page becomes static, who
aside from brand new viewers cares what it looks like, because experience
members will go directly to their respective corners of LUGNET.
|
I’m up in the air about keeping ‘Top Stories’ on the main page of LUGNET.
Perhaps it should stay, and have a bit less prominent position.
What I’d *really* like to see is a magazine-style news posting system where
articles (not posts) are written for the LUGNET main page. Take a look at
BZPower, BrickFilms, or
FBTB among other sites to see what I’m talking about. This
feature wouldn’t take up the whole main page, but could have a significant part
of the middle devoted to it.
If written the right way, it could tie in news from across the community and not
just LUGNET. LUGNET could have an editorial staff that publishes a small handful
of articles each week, to keep the content on the main page fresh.
Also, others could get together to create a “New to the hobby?” guide for
newbies. That could provide some copy orienting them to the various sites and
services in the community, and point them in the right direction.
Now below is a novel idea, so please don’t jump on me for it - just
brainstorming here:
I wonder if “Newsgroups” should be renamed to “Discussion Groups.” I don’t know
how the LUGNET population breaks down, but on the internet today far more people
use online discussion groups than use NNTP news. New users will likely identify
with the word “Discussion Groups” or “Forums” much quicker than they would
“Newsgroups.” Note: I am not suggesting eliminating NNTP news, I realize
that’s important to a lot of LUGNET readers. Perhaps though, the
http://news.lugnet.com could redirect to something else? Could it be written in
a way that it doesn’t break existing links?
| |
** Perhaps the links page could be totally revamped if we asked theme
moderators to submit their lists and someone could compile a master list
of links. We could also put a big announcement on the front page asking
people to submit their own, living links. Otherwise, someone would have
to take the current list and try every site to see what is alive and what
is dead--a tedious job when there are over 300 sites listed under
“miscellaneous”. Also, when was that page created anyway? I know my site
isn’t on it, nor is the Brick Testament (we went up about the same time 3
or so years ago). There has to be a ton of great sites that are not
included.
|
When I was brainstorming the WorldLUG project with Paul Hartzog, one of our key
ideas was a central links database - like an open directory project. Allow
LUGNET members to update their own URLs that are listed in the links database,
and set up a few admins to manage links to non-LUGNET-member sites.
There could even be a redirect URL which would always point to the current
location of a site, by way of the central link database. For example, if I own
www.foo.com, and I want to link to www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html, but I know
that page will probably change in the future, I can link to
www.lugnet.com/link.cgi?id=x (where x is the link ID of the page I’m linking
to). The LUGNET server would then redirect me to
www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html - and if that ever changed the link would
point me in the right direction once the link database was updated.
That way, I wouldn’t have to manually change my links to another community site.
-Tim
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Tim Courtney wrote:
> What I'd *really* like to see is a magazine-style news posting system where
> articles (not posts) are written for the LUGNET main page. Take a look at
> <http://www.bzpower.com BZPower>, <http://www.brickfilms.com BrickFilms>, or
> <http://www.fbtb.net FBTB> among other sites to see what I'm talking about. This
> feature wouldn't take up the whole main page, but could have a significant part
> of the middle devoted to it.
Wouldn't it be just easier to share the info with those pages?
> When I was brainstorming the WorldLUG project with Paul Hartzog, one of our key
> ideas was a central links database - like an open directory project. Allow
> LUGNET members to update their own URLs that are listed in the links database,
> and set up a few admins to manage links to non-LUGNET-member sites.
yahoo.lugnet.org? ;-))
Just why 'admins'? Let everybody add anything, let others vote, let
others veto. Add autotools for periodical link checking. Let the person
who added the link that it points nowhere for some time... etc.
> There could even be a redirect URL which would always point to the current
> location of a site, by way of the central link database. For example, if I own
> www.foo.com, and I want to link to www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html, but I know
> that page will probably change in the future, I can link to
> www.lugnet.com/link.cgi?id=x (where x is the link ID of the page I'm linking
> to). The LUGNET server would then redirect me to
> www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html - {and if that ever changed} the link would
> point me in the right direction once the link database was updated.
See my sig. www.atari.org gives third level domains as a redirect.
That's the easiest link to remember (don't like all those ? in urls and
id numbers), works great and is easy to implement.
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
http://jindroush.atari.org - Home of Atari Cartridge Dumping Project
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jindrich Kubec wrote:
> Tim Courtney wrote:
> > What I'd *really* like to see is a magazine-style news posting system where
> > articles (not posts) are written for the LUGNET main page. Take a look at
> > <http://www.bzpower.com BZPower>, <http://www.brickfilms.com BrickFilms>, or
> > <http://www.fbtb.net FBTB> among other sites to see what I'm talking about. This
> > feature wouldn't take up the whole main page, but could have a significant part
> > of the middle devoted to it.
>
> Wouldn't it be just easier to share the info with those pages?
Too much grunt work. The technical solution is too easy not to implement.
> > When I was brainstorming the WorldLUG project with Paul Hartzog, one of our key
> > ideas was a central links database - like an open directory project. Allow
> > LUGNET members to update their own URLs that are listed in the links database,
> > and set up a few admins to manage links to non-LUGNET-member sites.
>
> yahoo.lugnet.org? ;-))
> Just why 'admins'? Let everybody add anything, let others vote, let
> others veto. Add autotools for periodical link checking. Let the person
> who added the link that it points nowhere for some time... etc.
I agree that anyone should be able to submit a link for consideration, but I
believe (strongly) that an administrator should have to approve links to be
publicly visible. This prevents links to objectionable sites, and allows another
pair of eyes to check spelling, etc.
> > There could even be a redirect URL which would always point to the current
> > location of a site, by way of the central link database. For example, if I own
> > www.foo.com, and I want to link to www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html, but I know
> > that page will probably change in the future, I can link to
> > www.lugnet.com/link.cgi?id=x (where x is the link ID of the page I'm linking
> > to). The LUGNET server would then redirect me to
> > www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html - {and if that ever changed} the link would
> > point me in the right direction once the link database was updated.
>
> See my sig. www.atari.org gives third level domains as a redirect.
> That's the easiest link to remember (don't like all those ? in urls and
> id numbers), works great and is easy to implement.
For branding purposes, I think this is a bad idea for LUGNET. Someone could then
advertise their site as "blah.lugnet.com," and have it interpreted as an actual
part of LUGNET. With this content outside of LUGNET's control, the name could be
abused.
I know IDs are ugly, but they're a simple (technical) solution. You still have
your site's *real* URL, but you also have a redirect available that others can
use to link to you if they want it auto-updated.
Note that people will keep linking to big sites by their name. They aren't going
anywhere. Its the small sites on free systems like GeoCities, etc that would
really benefit from the redirects.
-Tim
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In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
| |
I agree that anyone should be able to submit a link for consideration, but I
believe (strongly) that an administrator should have to approve links to be
publicly visible.
|
Absolutely!
At 1000steine.de you can submit links too:
http://www.1000steine.de/links/links.php4
I have to accept all links and it’s not uncommon, that somebody submits links
that has really nothing to do with LEGO. So I can delete them before they’re
public.
Leg Godt!
René
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Tim Courtney <tim.courtney@SPAMCAKE.zacktron.com> wrote:
> For branding purposes, I think this is a bad idea for LUGNET. Someone
> could then advertise their site as "blah.lugnet.com," and have it
> interpreted as an actual part of LUGNET. With this content outside of
> LUGNET's control, the name could be abused.
Also, on a practical level, doing redirects (not just DNS records) as
subdomains would be prohibitively expensive with the current Lugnet
hosting arrangement.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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Matthew Miller wrote:
> Also, on a practical level, doing redirects (not just DNS records) as
> subdomains would be prohibitively expensive with the current Lugnet
> hosting arrangement.
I don't know anything about current situation, but this is beyond my
imagination?
What's that 'expensive' on one dns record and one mod_rewrite line in
Apache config?
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz> wrote:
> > Also, on a practical level, doing redirects (not just DNS records) as
> > subdomains would be prohibitively expensive with the current Lugnet
> > hosting arrangement.
> I don't know anything about current situation, but this is beyond my
> imagination?
> What's that 'expensive' on one dns record and one mod_rewrite line in
> Apache config?
From a technical point of view, nothing at all. And maybe Pair would be
cool about it, I dunno. ISPs like to charge for stuff like that, is all.
Hopefully, we'll eventually have an arrangement which gives us more
control.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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Matthew Miller wrote:
> From a technical point of view, nothing at all. And maybe Pair would be
> cool about it, I dunno. ISPs like to charge for stuff like that, is all.
>
> Hopefully, we'll eventually have an arrangement which gives us more
> control.
Our company decided that all of the webhosters are too restrictive, so
we went the serverhosting way, where man can have lots of freedom
without any additional payments. RH Enterprise + 700gbs of traffic
monthly for relatively low price. I can disclose details, but I just
don't want to look this post as advertising (not that I'm interested in
any way in their business).
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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Tim Courtney wrote:
> I agree that anyone should be able to submit a link for consideration, but I
> believe (strongly) that an administrator should have to approve links to be
> publicly visible. This prevents links to objectionable sites, and allows another
> pair of eyes to check spelling, etc.
Sorry, this doesn't sound too 'open' to me as I fell this is 'power
centralisation' (your opinions may differ, of course).
I still think that crowd may have 'better' {and definitely faster}
decisions than few chosen ones. I think that total offtopic links would
be killed soon, in few tries. And the ones in 'grey' zone - let people
choose.
> For branding purposes, I think this is a bad idea for LUGNET. Someone could then
> advertise their site as "blah.lugnet.com," and have it interpreted as an actual
> part of LUGNET. With this content outside of LUGNET's control, the name could be
> abused.
I wonder why this doesn't happen on atari.org then?
> I know IDs are ugly, but they're a simple (technical) solution. You still have
> your site's *real* URL, but you also have a redirect available that others can
> use to link to you if they want it auto-updated.
This is the same solution, but it's _much_ easier to remember/use. (Of
course www.lugnet.com/redir/sitename would do, but it's longer,
www.lugnet.com/redir.pl?id=4095849534 is imo too cumbersome).
> Note that people will keep linking to big sites by their name. They aren't going
> anywhere. Its the small sites on free systems like GeoCities, etc that would
> really benefit from the redirects.
Of course.
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jindrich Kubec wrote:
> Tim Courtney wrote:
> > I agree that anyone should be able to submit a link for consideration, but I
> > believe (strongly) that an administrator should have to approve links to be
> > publicly visible. This prevents links to objectionable sites, and allows another
> > pair of eyes to check spelling, etc.
>
> Sorry, this doesn't sound too 'open' to me as I fell this is 'power
> centralisation' (your opinions may differ, of course).
>
> I still think that crowd may have 'better' {and definitely faster}
> decisions than few chosen ones. I think that total offtopic links would
> be killed soon, in few tries. And the ones in 'grey' zone - let people
> choose.
"If we just ignore the spammers, they'll stop sending Email"
Trust me, the above statement is completly false. I think moderation is
neccessary to avoid the link page from being overrun with ads for "free"
medication and "foolproof" get rich quick schemes (among other things).
-Orion
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Orion Pobursky wrote:
> > I still think that crowd may have 'better' {and definitely faster}
> > decisions than few chosen ones. I think that total offtopic links would
> > be killed soon, in few tries. And the ones in 'grey' zone - let people
> > choose.
>
> Trust me, the above statement is completly false. I think moderation is
> neccessary to avoid the link page from being overrun with ads for "free"
> medication and "foolproof" get rich quick schemes (among other things).
? I'm for moderation. But _everybody_ would be one. You'd vote for
'offtopic', I'd vote for 'offtopic', somebody else would do so... and
voila, link is removed. The only problem remains in setting the good
rules with good weights.
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jindrich Kubec wrote:
| |
| |
Trust me, the above statement is completly false. I think moderation is
neccessary to avoid the link page from being overrun with ads for “free”
medication and “foolproof” get rich quick schemes (among other things).
|
|
Orion, do you have any basis for making a blanket statement such as your first
sentence? I’m not trying to defend or condemn anybody, but that’s bad logic to
just say “trust me..” and not give any reason. Your next sentence provides a
reason, but you preface it with “I think...”
| |
? I’m for moderation. But everybody would be one. You’d vote for
‘offtopic’, I’d vote for ‘offtopic’, somebody else would do so... and
voila, link is removed. The only problem remains in setting the good
rules with good weights.
|
While I don’t think think community moderation would be totally bad, there is
one thing I would like to point out about it that I think is a definite point
against it. Suppose some spammer decides to submit a link for a pornography
site. For the first few people that visit the site (whether they vote or not),
they’re going to see some rubbish there. Now, suppose those first few people
were all kids or parents with kids in the background? There’s no way I’d want to
chance it. Even if I did vote against it, there would be no security in knowing
that I could let my kid browse safely - because there would be absolutely no
guarantee of what the kid would see!
With an admin/moderator system, however, this is eliminated. The only place the
rubbish goes is in the trash bin, before it ever makes a public debut.
Now, that all said, I would pose a question: how many people do you think are
really going to take the time to spam LUGNET with off-topic links? There are
links pages all over the place (BrickLink, for example) that don’t get spammed.
-Mike
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In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Thorn wrote:
| |
Now, that all said, I would pose a question: how many people do you think are
really going to take the time to spam LUGNET with off-topic links? There are
links pages all over the place (BrickLink, for example) that don’t get
spammed.
|
Well I know that there are some goof balls who take the time to use
MichLUG.org’s contact form to spam us MichLUGers. So if someone is willing to
waste their time on that I can only assume the same would be true of a much
larger site like LUGnet.
On a related note, I remember a few years back where there were problems with
inappropriate material showing up on Brickshelf. Now while I agree moderation
can be a pain there, at least the site is kid-safe. So I’m for the moderation on
the links and I think it will be smooth and quick. There will be volunteers who
would be willing to donate their time to making sure it works.
Jason Spears | BrickCentral | MichLUG
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jindrich Kubec wrote:
> Tim Courtney wrote:
> > I agree that anyone should be able to submit a link for consideration, but I
> > believe (strongly) that an administrator should have to approve links to be
> > publicly visible. This prevents links to objectionable sites, and allows another
> > pair of eyes to check spelling, etc.
>
> Sorry, this doesn't sound too 'open' to me as I fell this is 'power
> centralisation' (your opinions may differ, of course).
Why frame this negatively with the words 'power centralization?' Think ... what
'power' would link administrators have? Approve/reject links to be made public.
Its in the best interest of creating a comprehensive directory to link to as
many related sites as possible. With a group of people responsible for curating
links, I don't see how it could be abused.
> I still think that crowd may have 'better' {and definitely faster}
> decisions than few chosen ones. I think that total offtopic links would
> be killed soon, in few tries. And the ones in 'grey' zone - let people
> choose.
I don't see how a bunch of people could make 'better' decisions than a few,
though I do see your point about it being faster.
And what about how to control people who want to come in and raise havoc by
deleting links maliciously?
> > For branding purposes, I think this is a bad idea for LUGNET. Someone could then
> > advertise their site as "blah.lugnet.com," and have it interpreted as an actual
> > part of LUGNET. With this content outside of LUGNET's control, the name could be
> > abused.
>
> I wonder why this doesn't happen on atari.org then?
Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it couldn't happen or won't
happen. Historically, we've had a handful of people who have seriously abused
LUGNET. I do not want to give them the opportunity to set up a subdomain
redirect and malign it by appearing a part of the LUGNET domain.
> > I know IDs are ugly, but they're a simple (technical) solution. You still have
> > your site's *real* URL, but you also have a redirect available that others can
> > use to link to you if they want it auto-updated.
>
> This is the same solution, but it's _much_ easier to remember/use. (Of
> course www.lugnet.com/redir/sitename would do, but it's longer,
> www.lugnet.com/redir.pl?id=4095849534 is imo too cumbersome).
You win on that one :-)
-Tim
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Tim Courtney wrote:
> I don't see how a bunch of people could make 'better' decisions than a few,
> though I do see your point about it being faster.
In the clear cases, there is no argue that they could get as good
results as few admins.
In the 'grey' cases, the voting of more people can make the result to
represent the majority opinion, which may not be the case of few admins.
> And what about how to control people who want to come in and raise havoc by
> deleting links maliciously?
It has to be an iterative mechanism, no individidual would have enough
power to do that.
> Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it couldn't happen or won't
> happen. Historically, we've had a handful of people who have seriously abused
> LUGNET. I do not want to give them the opportunity to set up a subdomain
> redirect and malign it by appearing a part of the LUGNET domain.
If it could be set, it could be also removed.
> > This is the same solution, but it's _much_ easier to remember/use. (Of
> > course www.lugnet.com/redir/sitename would do, but it's longer,
> > www.lugnet.com/redir.pl?id=4095849534 is imo too cumbersome).
>
> You win on that one :-)
Of course, I've just implemented such stuff recently on my webfarm ;-))
--
Jindroush Webfarmer <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jindrich Kubec wrote:
> Tim Courtney wrote:
> > I don't see how a bunch of people could make 'better' decisions than a few,
> > though I do see your point about it being faster.
>
> In the clear cases, there is no argue that they could get as good
> results as few admins.
> In the 'grey' cases, the voting of more people can make the result to
> represent the majority opinion, which may not be the case of few admins.
I'd rather see the link directory be well architected than reflect majority
opinion. This would require a few thoughtful, knowledgeable, and fair people to
give a little bit of time to maintaining it. This isn't voting on major policy
here, we don't need to defer to 'majority opinion' for every single decision.
Deciding how to present links hardly requires a democratic process at the
day-to-day operational level.
The Open Directory Project (www.dmoz.org) relies on 'editors,' volunteers who
are selected to manage the categories of links. There's an application and
approval process also. Even they don't allow everyone to have administrative
powers over the link directory.
Too many cooks in the pot isn't a good thing. It will create a mess. LUGNET
doesn't allow everyone to curate newsgroup web pages either.
-Tim
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In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
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snip
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I actually think that the Top Stories box should be removed from the
main LUGNET homepage. It’s redundant with the News homepage.
|
I would disagree. Unless there is some serious, oft-updated content added
to the front page (e.g. admin-blog or rotating images), the Top Stories box
is the only reason I keep coming back to www.lugnet.com, rather than making
news.lugnet.com my preferred bookmark. If the front page becomes static,
who aside from brand new viewers cares what it looks like, because
experience members will go directly to their respective corners of LUGNET.
|
I’m up in the air about keeping ‘Top Stories’ on the main page of LUGNET.
Perhaps it should stay, and have a bit less prominent position.
What I’d *really* like to see is a magazine-style news posting system where
articles (not posts) are written for the LUGNET main page. Take a look at
BZPower, BrickFilms, or
FBTB among other sites to see what I’m talking about.
This feature wouldn’t take up the whole main page, but could have a
significant part of the middle devoted to it.
If written the right way, it could tie in news from across the community and
not just LUGNET. LUGNET could have an editorial staff that publishes a small
handful of articles each week, to keep the content on the main page fresh.
|
Yes! - it would be very much like a group blog. See my mockup:
http://news.lugnet.com/admin/general/?n=11349
| |
Also, others could get together to create a “New to the hobby?” guide for
newbies. That could provide some copy orienting them to the various sites and
services in the community, and point them in the right direction.
Now below is a novel idea, so please don’t jump on me for it - just
brainstorming here:
I wonder if “Newsgroups” should be renamed to “Discussion Groups.” I don’t
know how the LUGNET population breaks down, but on the internet today far
more people use online discussion groups than use NNTP news. New users will
likely identify with the word “Discussion Groups” or “Forums” much quicker
than they would “Newsgroups.” Note: I am not suggesting eliminating NNTP
news, I realize that’s important to a lot of LUGNET readers. Perhaps though,
the http://news.lugnet.com could redirect to something else? Could it be
written in a way that it doesn’t break existing links?
|
snip
| |
When I was brainstorming the WorldLUG project with Paul Hartzog, one of our
key ideas was a central links database - like an open directory project.
Allow LUGNET members to update their own URLs that are listed in the links
database, and set up a few admins to manage links to non-LUGNET-member sites.
|
This is a great idea. It is a superhuman task for one person, or even a few
people to keep up with all the links out there.
Marc Nelson Jr.
| |
There could even be a redirect URL which would always point to the current
location of a site, by way of the central link database. For example, if I
own www.foo.com, and I want to link to www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html, but
I know that page will probably change in the future, I can link to
www.lugnet.com/link.cgi?id=x (where x is the link ID of the page I’m linking
to). The LUGNET server would then redirect me to
www.geocities.com/~bar/glort.html - and if that ever changed the link would
point me in the right direction once the link database was updated.
That way, I wouldn’t have to manually change my links to another community
site.
-Tim
|
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how about a wiki? anyone can put stuff on there, but its so easy to
remove spam
Marc Nelson Jr. wrote:
<snip>
> > When I was brainstorming the WorldLUG project with Paul Hartzog, one of our
> > key ideas was a central links database - like an open directory project.
> > Allow LUGNET members to update their own URLs that are listed in the links
> > database, and set up a few admins to manage links to non-LUGNET-member sites.
>
>
> This is a great idea. It is a superhuman task for one person, or even a few
> people to keep up with all the links out there.
>
> Marc Nelson Jr.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bob Clough wrote:
> > > When I was brainstorming the WorldLUG project with Paul Hartzog, one of our
> > > key ideas was a central links database - like an open directory project.
> > > Allow LUGNET members to update their own URLs that are listed in the links
> > > database, and set up a few admins to manage links to non-LUGNET-member sites.
> >
> > This is a great idea. It is a superhuman task for one person, or even a few
> > people to keep up with all the links out there.
>
> how about a wiki? anyone can put stuff on there, but its so easy to
> remove spam
It would be pretty easy to convert the /links/ area from static HTML pages
into dynamic FTX content, which would essentially give wiki-type functionality.
--Todd
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
> I actually think that the Top Stories box should be removed from the
> main LUGNET homepage.
Nnnooooooo... ;]
Here's the deal: I used to be an avid LUGNET poster, but due to a lot of
issues not related to LUGNET or LEGO I had to shelve the hobby for about
2 years. I'm now trickling back to it, at least the purchasing part of
the hobby. So currently the only reasons I come to LUGNET are to look
for shopping info, check out new sets, and to update my collection database.
Because I don't browse the newsgroups, the only exposure I get to top
leading discussion topics is on the home page. Were it not for that I
would have been totally unaware of topics like this one, like Brickfan,
like the change in grey bricks, etc.
LUGNET may be meant to be a network for people, but I believe that there are
a very large number of people who use it purely as a resource. Those people
may not have any time/interest for reading/posting in newsgroups. The
only way top news items might be getting to them now is via the hot topics
list on the home page (or a feature similar to it TBD). It is also a great
hook for attracting newcomers into the newsgroups.
So please try to keep something on the homepage that highlights the leading
topics in the newsgroups. One suggestion I could make might be to change
the way the hot topics are selected and/or organized onto the home page.
Right now it's based on user voting. That's okay, but sometimes you get
a ton of topics getting voted for, many of which are not really that hot,
and so a lot of "routine" things end up on the front page. Like almost
every MOC. :] Perhaps the hot topics could be sub-cat'ed into "general
news" and "theme news"? Can't have it overly micro, but also don't want
the space reserved for "big news" to get diluted with "chat as usual".
Thanx and regards,
KDJ
_____________________________________
LUGNETer #203, Ontario, Canada
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A couple of ideas:
1. Classic-castle and FBTB both prominently feature admin-generated
announcements on the front pages that are updated every day or so--new set
announcments, contests, fests, etc (presumably other sites, too, these are just
the ones I read). These are the reason that I go to the front page of each of
those sites first rather than jumping straight to the message boards. The one
problem with this is that it is fairly admin-intensive. To have new content
every day someone (or a committee of someones) has to generate something new
every day.
2. Pics of MOCs. Some of the newsgroups (.space, .castle, .trains (though not
updated as often)) post pics of cool MOCs in that theme in their sidebars.
Perhaps something like this - cool MOC of the day or week - would generate a
flow of new eye-candy on the front page. Of course, this again requires someone
to choose and post the new pics regularly--perhaps the curators of the various
sidebars could have a rotating schedule where they post a pic from their theme
and then a few days later the next theme is up. Or could there be a way to
automate this, like 1000steine.de, MOCpages, and the “recent” page on
Brickshelf? Perhaps drawing on Brickshelf and take the image with the most
views in the past 24 hours (I’m not sure if there is an easy way to program
this, maybe Kevin would have ideas?). Or more easily I suppose you could just
have the most recent Brickshelf image (like 1000steine.de and MOCpages have a
running update of the most recent MOCs), updated every 2 hours automatically, or
a completely randomized image from Brickshelf. Of course, this could often be
something of much less interest, which I why I was wondering if there was a way
of automating using the page views counter on Brickshelf--presumably the coolest
MOCs would get viewed more often as visitors to Brickshelf clicked on them.
3. Similar to #2, but pics from “events”, such as Brickfests, LUG or LTC
outings, etc. Again, the downfall is that this is admin-intensive in selecting
and posting images regularly. Perhaps, as with the above suggestion about
sidebar curators rotating, volunteer reps from each LUG and LTC, and also
different coordinators from fests, could select 1 to 4 images from their most
recent event and have some schedule. Looking under .org and .trains.org I count
54 LUGs and LTCs, plus we could add another 10 or so if we throw in groups like
ILTCO, Scibrick, festival coordinators, etc. A schedule could assign someone
new to post every three days and each group would only be responsible for
posting twice a year, and there would still be quite a bit of turnaround of new
images. This would require a coordinator whose job it would be to keep the
schedule and send e-mails regularly reminding the various LUG and LTC reps who
are scheduled to post. One advantage of this (I’m warming up to this version) is
that it would generate a constant rotation of front page eye-candy, and it would
give different groups a chance to advertise themselves to the wider community.
E.g. they could include links to their .org groups or LUG websites and
announcements of upcoming public events. Many groups already regularly post
pics of meetings or public shows in their .org sidebars, so picking a few images
for the Lugnet front page would not be a significant amount of extra work.
4. Bring back CLSotW. I know there has been low voter participation in the
recent run, but I still think it’s very cool to highlight great work on a
regular basis. There are many very cool sites that have gone up since CLSotW
died most recently--classic-castle, ITLCO, and Scibrick just to name three
“community” sites that would be obvious nominees (to me, at least), not to
mention many great individual efforts (like my personal favorite, Mike Crowley’s
great Miniland-scale Star Wars creations).
Bruce
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
I’m sorry to reply to my own post, but I forgot to add that CLSotW was a key
player in the end of my dark ages (along with cheap promotional sets at Shell
gas stations). Seeing all of these great creations by AFOLs made me want to dig
my bricks out of my parents’ basement and see what I could do as an adult.
Bruce
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
I’m sorry to reply to my own post, but I forgot to add that CLSotW was a
key player in the end of my dark ages (along with cheap promotional sets
at Shell gas stations).
|
Wow, cool, I didn’t know that!
--Todd
| |
Seeing all of these great creations by AFOLs
made me want to dig my bricks out of my parents’ basement and see what
I could do as an adult.
|
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
2. Pics of MOCs. Some of the newsgroups (.space, .castle, .trains (though
not updated as often)) post pics of cool MOCs in that theme in their
sidebars.
|
| |
Of course, this again
requires someone to choose and post the new pics regularly
|
Read those two sentences again. Someone already chooses them.
Why not just grab two or three at random from that much smaller selection? Good
idea though. It’d be good to see a parade of excellent models there on the
homepage.
| |
4. Bring back CLSotW. I know there has been low voter participation in the
recent run, but I still think it’s very cool to highlight great work on a
regular basis. There are many very cool sites that have gone up since CLSotW
died most recently--classic-castle, ITLCO, and Scibrick just to name three
“community” sites that would be obvious nominees (to me, at least), not to
mention many great individual efforts (like my personal favorite, Mike
Crowley’s great Miniland-scale Star Wars creations).
|
Another idea for promoting sites is you could have a page of links sorted by
clickthoughs - most clicks at the top. Occasionally bump one at random from the
bottom of the pile to the top. On the homepage have the Top Five and Random Lego
Site (sometimes I like to close my eyes and point) chosen from the list. Reset
it every week and jumble it up at random. Have this as the default, but retain a
‘sort by’ funtion.
I quite like the clean functionality of the current home page, but I would like
more reason to go there. I usually go straight to the newsgroups these days.
With regualr content updates (and these can be done automatically) I’d visit
more often. These could be put in the currently underutilised centre section of
the homepage where CLSOTW used to be.
Allister
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In lugnet.admin.general, Bruce Hietbrink wrote:
| |
A couple of ideas:
1. Classic-castle and FBTB both prominently feature admin-generated
announcements on the front pages that are updated every day or so--new set
announcments, contests, fests, etc (presumably other sites, too, these are
just the ones I read). These are the reason that I go to the front page of
each of those sites first rather than jumping straight to the message boards.
The one problem with this is that it is fairly admin-intensive. To have new
content every day someone (or a committee of someones) has to generate
something new every day.
2. Pics of MOCs. Some of the newsgroups (.space, .castle, .trains (though
not updated as often)) post pics of cool MOCs in that theme in their
sidebars. Perhaps something like this - cool MOC of the day or week - would
generate a flow of new eye-candy on the front page. Of course, this again
requires someone to choose and post the new pics regularly--perhaps the
curators of the various sidebars could have a rotating schedule where they
post a pic from their theme and then a few days later the next theme is up.
Or could there be a way to automate this, like 1000steine.de, MOCpages, and
the “recent” page on Brickshelf? Perhaps drawing on Brickshelf and take the
image with the most views in the past 24 hours (I’m not sure if there is an
easy way to program this, maybe Kevin would have ideas?). Or more easily I
suppose you could just have the most recent Brickshelf image (like
1000steine.de and MOCpages have a running update of the most recent MOCs),
updated every 2 hours automatically, or a completely randomized image from
Brickshelf. Of course, this could often be something of much less interest,
which I why I was wondering if there was a way of automating using the page
views counter on Brickshelf--presumably the coolest MOCs would get viewed
more often as visitors to Brickshelf clicked on them.
3. Similar to #2, but pics from “events”, such as Brickfests, LUG or LTC
outings, etc. Again, the downfall is that this is admin-intensive in
selecting and posting images regularly. Perhaps, as with the above
suggestion about sidebar curators rotating, volunteer reps from each LUG and
LTC, and also different coordinators from fests, could select 1 to 4 images
from their most recent event and have some schedule. Looking under .org and
.trains.org I count 54 LUGs and LTCs, plus we could add another 10 or so if
we throw in groups like ILTCO, Scibrick, festival coordinators, etc. A
schedule could assign someone new to post every three days and each group
would only be responsible for posting twice a year, and there would still be
quite a bit of turnaround of new images. This would require a coordinator
whose job it would be to keep the schedule and send e-mails regularly
reminding the various LUG and LTC reps who are scheduled to post. One
advantage of this (I’m warming up to this version) is that it would generate
a constant rotation of front page eye-candy, and it would give different
groups a chance to advertise themselves to the wider community. E.g. they
could include links to their .org groups or LUG websites and announcements of
upcoming public events. Many groups already regularly post pics of meetings
or public shows in their .org sidebars, so picking a few images for the
Lugnet front page would not be a significant amount of extra work.
4. Bring back CLSotW. I know there has been low voter participation in the
recent run, but I still think it’s very cool to highlight great work on a
regular basis. There are many very cool sites that have gone up since CLSotW
died most recently--classic-castle, ITLCO, and Scibrick just to name three
“community” sites that would be obvious nominees (to me, at least), not to
mention many great individual efforts (like my personal favorite, Mike
Crowley’s great Miniland-scale Star Wars creations).
Bruce
|
These are pretty much the improvements I would like to see on the LUGNET
homepage. I think adding in some sort of blog feature would allow
moderators/curators to easily post content to the homepage (disclaimer: I don’t
know anything about how websites work). So without further ado, here’s what I
would like the homepage to look like:
Explanation of changes (from top to bottom, more or less):
- sign-in key on homepage: This could be used to sign in and see the site in your language, post, go to a “my LUGNET page”, whatever.
- different links under news/set search: added “Reference”, which would lead to Partsref, set guide, FAQs, etc.; “Groups”, which would lead to the LUG map and list, and “Archives”, which would lead to archives of the blog posts
- central blog area: here mods/curators can post articles and pictures about just about anything. This would be very flexible and could be used to get all kinds of information, images, and links on the homepage.
- community icons: on the right edge is an area for links to important sites. The sites featured on the homepage would rotate, and would be drawn from a central page of links (“more links” under “Community”).
Obviously, this is not a complete redesign, but I generally like LUGNET the way
it is. Thanks for asking for our contributions, and thanks for all the great
work, Todd.
Marc Nelson Jr.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
schnipp
| |
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
|
schnapp
I’d rather like to see some more add-ons to the LUGNET newsgroups and a new
frontpage than a complete redesign. The design of the newsgroups is excellent in
both ways: graphical and functional.
Possible add-ons:
An improved rating system for news: Ratings from 0-10 (like your PDX Photo
Gallery); graphically display rating to each news; link the ratings to the
author as well: when an author always gets high ratings for his postings it will
be very likley that a new message by him will be interesting again. Now combine
this with some content based and collaborative filtering and generate a personal
LUGNET homepage (first-/front-page) for each member/visitor.
Maybe this new frontpage could be made customizeable by each member
The combination of a LUGNET frontpage and brickshelf’s recent top viewed (most
rated would be even better) pictures would be great
I’d also like to see some more polls and be able to create them. I really enjoy
the polls on fbtb and I guess so does LEGO® :)
The CLSotW is a wonduerful idea. I think it’s an honor if your sites gets this
title. It’s an incentive for everyone to put up high qualitiy sites and mocs. If
I remember correctly the only problem is/was that only logged in members are
able to vote.
Logging in and posting procedures should be made easier/faster when reading the
newsgroup and posting to them via webbrowser
Maybe this all means a complete redesign ?!
To wrap it up: the newsgroup is great but the frontpage needs some more action!
This is a schleiming good page !
->dö
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Ralph Döring <doe@gmx.de> wrote:
> An improved rating system for news: Ratings from 0-10 (like your PDX Photo
> Gallery); graphically display rating to each news; link the ratings to the
If I remember right, the initial news rating system *was* 0-10, and it
didn't work very well. Too many options, too much work.
> author as well: when an author always gets high ratings for his postings
> it will be very likley that a new message by him will be interesting
> again. Now combine this with some content based and collaborative
> filtering and generate a personal LUGNET homepage (first-/front-page)
> for each member/visitor.
I'm not sure this is a good thing. It can lead to a sort of "clique" of
Famous Posters and interesting things by newcomers or just plain quieter
sorts could be easily lost.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Ralph Döring <doe@gmx.de> wrote:
> > An improved rating system for news: Ratings from 0-10 (like your PDX
> > Photo Gallery); graphically display rating to each news; link the
>
> If I remember right, the initial news rating system *was* 0-10, and it
> didn't work very well. Too many options, too much work.
Ya, or rather it worked too well. It was actually used quite a bit, but it saw
almost immediate abuse when people discovered that they could mark posts as zero
from people they didn't like, just to be mean. Internally, it was represented
by a value 0-100, and it still is -- a Spotlight rating is 100 and a Highlight
rating is 75 (IIRC). The main difference now is that a rating of 0 counts as
un-doing a rating rather than casting a rating of 0.
--Todd
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
SNIP
| |
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
|
SNIP
well, it’s not ALL a complete redesign, as i like the easy spotlight bar on the
left-the rest is brand spankin new. This hexagonal brick design was originally
going to be my webpage design, but I really don’t need my own page, so here it
is for all of us. notice how it’s shaped like a central HUB - Hahahahahaha!
THIS IS ONLY AN IMAGE-I’m not skilled at all in web design code. I thought
Shiri Dori’s pages were very helpful when I started, so I included them. Also,
on a somber note, since we’re afol’s, we ain’t gettin’ younger, & someof us are
already in the big brickpile in the sky, so i thought a ‘memorial’ link would be
cool. I forgot a bricklink/2nd hand shop link, so that can be added
Enjoy
Jeff
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Well, this looks really “busy” and crowded.
Erik Bush
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No, the first thing a first-time visitor sees should tell something about the
available places to go -- not display only icons. Icons are not language, they
are little puzzles that you have to figure out.
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Jeff Szklennik <jeffszklennik@usaexpress.net> wrote:
> <<http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jeff-S/Misc-Ideas/lugnet02.jpg>>
Ow, my brain!
In seriousness, one of the problems with this design is difficulty of
expansion. If some new vital site comes out, where does it fit in?
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
|
TRY # 2
colors, bricks, poll, expandibility (could get taller as i made it 800x600 to
start-this made it a little tight, but can easily be remedied)
Enjoy
Jeff
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
|
TRY # 2
colors, bricks, poll, expandibility (could get taller as i made it 800x600 to
start-this made it a little tight, but can easily be remedied)
|
I don’t mean to be rude at all, but this is way too image-intensive and busy.
The goal here is making a main page that’s easy to follow for new users - if I
were a new user, I would not know how to navigate this site.
.02
-Tim
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| |
|
In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
> TRY # 2
>
> <<http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jeff-S/Misc-Ideas/lugnet03.jpg>>
Ayiee, mine eyes!! ;]
I find it overwhelming. One of the trends that I notice in home page
design is that people are increasingly trying to link to every single
page of their site's content (and affiliate sites' content) from the
home page. The result is a page of 3 to 4 columns of nothing but
links, little content. I find it completely overwhelming. I think
it's better the keep with a home page that allows you to step into
major topic areas on sub-pages, and then let the sub-pages give all
the links.
However Jeff's ideas did highlight one interesting thing to me. The
current LUGNET home page doesn't feature a single brick (permanently)
anywhere on the page. To me the 2x4 brick is the universal icon of
this hobby, but there's no prominent (yet unobtrusive) brick near
the top of the home page. Other than the minifigs on the side,
and the occasional MOC image, a newcomer wouldn't see anything on this
page that is recognizeably linked to LEGO. (The cool yet acid-trippy
LUGNET logo just doesn't count as recognizeable.) I think the visual
design should be tweaked slightly to include a brick somewhere, so that
new visitors will automatically see something they recognize, and so that
returning visitors will keep seeing something they recognize, rather
than just a page full of text. Maybe, subliminally, it'll help ward off
"dark ages". ;]
Heck, if you wanna get fancy, how about a "Brick of the Week" feature as
well?? :] (A different brick each week, could even link to a little
write-up with a suggested list of uses...)
Also, the homepage needs a more direct way of logging in for people who
are not dropping by to browse newsgroups, e.g., myself to log in to
update my collection list.
Thanx and regards,
KDJ
__________________________________
LUGNETer #203, Ontario, Canada
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| |
|
Kyle D. Jackson <missioncontrol@sympatico.deletethisspamblock.ca> wrote:
> However Jeff's ideas did highlight one interesting thing to me. The
> current LUGNET home page doesn't feature a single brick (permanently)
> anywhere on the page. To me the 2x4 brick is the universal icon of
> this hobby, but there's no prominent (yet unobtrusive) brick near
> the top of the home page. Other than the minifigs on the side,
If I remember the musings from near Lugnet's beginning, this is sort of
intentional -- the logo is specifically not a Lego brick to avoid all risk
of confusion with being an official site. Maybe that's not such a worry at
this point.
> Heck, if you wanna get fancy, how about a "Brick of the Week" feature as
> well?? :] (A different brick each week, could even link to a little
> write-up with a suggested list of uses...)
Now that's a cool idea! I'd love to see a series of articles like that.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Kyle D. Jackson <missioncontrol@sympatico.deletethisspamblock.ca> wrote:
SNIP
> > Heck, if you wanna get fancy, how about a "Brick of the Week" feature as
> > well?? :] (A different brick each week, could even link to a little
> > write-up with a suggested list of uses...)
>
> Now that's a cool idea! I'd love to see a series of articles like that.
Peeron.com has a random piece of the day feature
Jeff
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Jeff Szklennik <jeffszklennik@usaexpress.net> wrote:
> > > Heck, if you wanna get fancy, how about a "Brick of the Week" feature as
> > > well?? :] (A different brick each week, could even link to a little
> > > write-up with a suggested list of uses...)
> > Now that's a cool idea! I'd love to see a series of articles like that.
> Peeron.com has a random piece of the day feature
By itself, having a random piece is slightly interesting. But a
specifically-picked "Cool Brick of the Week" could be a lot more --
history of that part, some suggestions of non-obvious building techniques,
examples of cool/famous/not-so-famous MOCs that make good use of the part,
and so on.
It'd take a lot of work, and I'm not necessarily volunteering. :)
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> By itself, having a random piece is slightly interesting. But a
> specifically-picked "Cool Brick of the Week" could be a lot more --
> history of that part, some suggestions of non-obvious building techniques,
> examples of cool/famous/not-so-famous MOCs that make good use of the part,
> and so on.
>
> It'd take a lot of work, and I'm not necessarily volunteering. :)
Man am I behind in my reading/posting.
The Spacers have a Seed Part of the Month... it seems to generate some (a LOT
OF!) neat creations. Not all seed parts are "cool", IIRC, some were chosen to be
"challenging" to incorporate, so maybe it's a slightly different thrust. Wanted
to mention it though.
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| |
|
In lugnet.admin.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> The Spacers have a Seed Part of the Month... it seems to generate some (a LOT
> OF!) neat creations. Not all seed parts are "cool", IIRC, some were chosen to be"challenging" to incorporate, so maybe it's a slightly different thrust.
I've been thinking about this for a while myself. It's a great way to stimulate
both creativity and lateral thinking!
May I suggest "Tricky Bricks Incorporated" and propose the small rubber band
holder as the first contender:
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemPic.asp?P=41752
Consideration should be given to:
Percentage of "non-tricky" parts in the entry (low is better)
Picture quality of entry
Perhaps 2 entry categories:
Single Instance (for 5 minute models)
Multiple Instances (for those with more spare time)
I'll offer a prize of a chrome silver 2x4 brick for the best entry received and
can set up a voting page at misbi.com (as it's not doing much since eBay pulled
my plug).
It'll need a bit of working up in respect of rules for entrants and voting, but
I reckon I could have it ready to roll for 1st March if there's enough interest.
Let me know....
Cheers
misbi
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Try # 3
thanks for all the imput. I tried to make it less busy, & identify the major
groups of stuff for newbies. the left, top, and right ‘bars’ are the same, as i
think they work well on the current site, i just spruced em up a bit
enjoy!, comments encouraged
Jeff
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
Try # 4 even simpler
enjoy!, comments encouraged
Jeff
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
Jeff,
While this latest version is indeed simpler, it still has one thing to it: it’s
image-heavy. People on dialup on a slow day are going to get frustrated while
they sit there waiting for a bunch of big graphics to load.
In my mind, it would be better to do the main stuff with text with non-essential
images as supplements. That way the main stuff loads fast enough to get the idea
and give viewers something to read while the images load (which as Todd said
should be kept to ~1-2 seconds).
One other thing about it is that there is no room for big announcements or stuff
like that (the recent Virtual LEGO and BrickFest images, for example). On an
800x600 screen, all the room is filled up.
-Mike
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
| |
Try # 3
thanks for all the imput. I tried to make it less busy, & identify the major
groups of stuff for newbies. the left, top, and right ‘bars’ are the same,
as i think they work well on the current site, i just spruced em up a bit
enjoy!, comments encouraged
Jeff
|
Heres my Idea! I know it doesnt look much different
-- Jeff
The small “MY LUGNET” lego smiley referrs to this post
http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=45627
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Jeff Barnas <jmbarnas@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Heres my Idea! I know it doesnt look much different
> <<http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/jmbarnas/iconz/lugnet.jpg>>
I think it'd be good if people's ideas use
<http://www.lugnet.com/index-future.cgi> as a base.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Jeff Barnas <jmbarnas@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Heres my Idea! I know it doesnt look much different
> > <<http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/jmbarnas/iconz/lugnet.jpg>>
>
> I think it'd be good if people's ideas use
> <http://www.lugnet.com/index-future.cgi> as a base.
I agree.
-Tim
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Sorry about my repitiveness but heres the pictures again because they havent
worked
Heres my Idea! I know it doesnt look much different
-- Jeff
The small “MY LUGNET” lego smiley referrs to this post
http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=45627
this is my second idea
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Szklennik wrote:
> Try # 3
>
> thanks for all the imput. I tried to make it less busy, & identify the major
> groups of stuff for newbies. the left, top, and right 'bars' are the same,
> as i think they work well on the current site, i just spruced em up a bit
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jeff-S/Misc-Ideas/lugnet04.jpg
>
> enjoy!, comments encouraged
>
> Jeff
You designs are good but the problem I have with them is color, too much of it
to be specific. Notice how LUGNET's current main page is all one color theme
with localized centers of other colors. This, to me, is more pleasing to the
eye than the mosaic of color exhibited in your ideas.
-Orion
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and
see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a link
to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that
goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally
rules.
--Todd
|
It may be off topic, but I think it would be very cool if the site was designed
using CSS layout, i.e. no nested tables. A great example site is:
http://www.csszengarden.com
It would make site development very straightforward, and allow people to switch
look and feels very easily.
Later,
Gary
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In lugnet.admin.general, Gary Thomas wrote:
| |
It may be off topic, but I think it would be very cool if the site was
designed using CSS layout, i.e. no nested tables. A great example site is:
http://www.csszengarden.com
It would make site development very straightforward, and allow people to
switch look and feels very easily.
|
I don’t think that’s off-topic at all, Gary. Kind of a side-topic, but
definitely an important consideration. The more that can be done via CSS
instead of dynamic content on the server, too, the better.
--Todd
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In lugnet.admin.general, Gary Thomas wrote:
| |
It may be off topic, but I think it would be very cool if the site was
designed using CSS layout, i.e. no nested tables. A great example site is:
http://www.csszengarden.com
It would make site development very straightforward, and allow people to
switch look and feels very easily.
|
I agree with Gary, except for one big thing.
Precise CSS positioning that’s cross-browser compatible (IE, Mozilla, Opera,
Netscape, Mac) is a pain royalé, sitting right next to impossible. I’ve done it
and it’s nuts. Unless you don’t care if your stuff is misaligned by five pixels
or so, you’re guaranteed a long, frustrating coding session. What looks terrific
in IE is a shambles in another browser.
OTOH, if you *do* get it to work, it looks spectacular. :)
-Mike
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Mike Thorn <webmaster!@!roboticsresources.com> wrote:
> Precise CSS positioning that's cross-browser compatible (IE, Mozilla,
> Opera, Netscape, Mac) is a pain royalé, sitting right next to
> impossible. I've done it and it's nuts. Unless you don't care if your
> stuff is misaligned by five pixels or so, you're guaranteed a long,
> frustrating coding session. What looks terrific in IE is a shambles in
> another browser.
I agree: Don't Do That. The web isn't a brochure-display mechanism.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Thorn wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Gary Thomas wrote:
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It may be off topic, but I think it would be very cool if the site was
designed using CSS layout, i.e. no nested tables. A great example site is:
http://www.csszengarden.com
It would make site development very straightforward, and allow people to
switch look and feels very easily.
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I agree with Gary, except for one big thing.
Precise CSS positioning that’s cross-browser compatible (IE, Mozilla, Opera,
Netscape, Mac) is a pain royalé, sitting right next to impossible. I’ve done
it and it’s nuts. Unless you don’t care if your stuff is misaligned by five
pixels or so, you’re guaranteed a long, frustrating coding session. What
looks terrific in IE is a shambles in another browser.
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Very true, but I’ve found that simply specifying the correct doctype for pages
works like magic, at least on modern browsers:
HTML PUBLIC “-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN”
“http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd”
Using this works amazingly well - the results are nearly identical across the
browsers I’ve checked. More info can be found at:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/journey/
Later,
Gary
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OTOH, if you *do* get it to work, it looks spectacular. :)
-Mike
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In lugnet.admin.general, Gary Thomas wrote:
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In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Thorn wrote:
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In lugnet.admin.general, Gary Thomas wrote:
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It may be off topic, but I think it would be very cool if the site was
designed using CSS layout, i.e. no nested tables. A great example site is:
http://www.csszengarden.com
It would make site development very straightforward, and allow people to
switch look and feels very easily.
|
I agree with Gary, except for one big thing.
Precise CSS positioning that’s cross-browser compatible (IE, Mozilla, Opera,
Netscape, Mac) is a pain royalé, sitting right next to impossible. I’ve done
it and it’s nuts. Unless you don’t care if your stuff is misaligned by five
pixels or so, you’re guaranteed a long, frustrating coding session. What
looks terrific in IE is a shambles in another browser.
|
Very true, but I’ve found that simply specifying the correct doctype for
pages works like magic, at least on modern browsers:
HTML PUBLIC “-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN”
“http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd”
Using this works amazingly well - the results are nearly identical across the
browsers I’ve checked. More info can be found at:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/journey/
Later,
Gary
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OTOH, if you *do* get it to work, it looks spectacular. :)
-Mike
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I might also suggest that striving for looking terrific in IE first is a
source of your frustration. See especially comments 35 and 36 in this post by
Doug Bowman at Stopdesign:
http://www.stopdesign.com/log/2004/01/26/ie_factor.html.
Constantine
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Hey,
WOW! A new LUGNET site! :> This is GREAT. I like the one that is hear but a
change can be good! Out of curiosity, what brought upon these interesting
thoughts of changing the site?
I design websites often, well actually almost everyday I am working on one. (I
have yet to make my own, lol) But I have a good idea of what a website should
be like. I am not sure if anyone else does this, but anyway... One of the first
things I do is actually draw it on paper. Then I choose what theme colors it
will use, that it depends on what the website is about. And after that it’s all
fun and games. (right, lol)
Perhaps someone has already said this but, if you do a complete redesign then
you should have a link to the new site from this site. Then we can decide which
one is better, preview the site, and pick out all the bugs before it is used?
Just a suggestion or maybe you were going to do this anyway.
The site should be HSI (High Speed Internet) friendly and LSI
(Low Speed Internet) friendly. This also means only one site, not two, i.e. one
for Flash and one for others. This makes some people feel left out and can cause
loss of site traffic.
Thanks for the opportunity to have input!
Erik Bush
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In lugnet.admin.general, Erik Bush wrote:
Well, new homepage, anyway.
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Out of curiosity, what brought upon these interesting thoughts of
changing the site?
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(1) All the talk last week about WorldLUG and LEGOFan. (2) Abner Finley
reminded me at BrickFest PDX.
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Perhaps someone has already said this but, if you do a complete redesign
then you should have a link to the new site from this site. Then we can
decide which one is better, preview the site, and pick out all the bugs
before it is used?
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Yes, definitely. Suzanne will alsohave constructive comments to make as things
get closer.
--Todd
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
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Yes, definitely. Suzanne will alsohave constructive comments to make as
things get closer.
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Do you have the link to Suzanne’s concept new homepage handy?
-Tim
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In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
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Do you have the link to Suzanne’s concept new homepage handy?
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http://www.lugnet.com/index-future.cgi
--Todd
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
I know my opinion doesn’t count for much but I have to say I really like the
layout and feel of this. It’s simple, yet it gets the job done. With some slight
updating to fit all of the new great sites out there I believe this would work
well.
OnDrew
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
Looks sharp! I would be quite pleased with this design, especially if “Top
Stories” were listed at the bottom of the page. That’s the feature I use most.
A minor tweak I would make would be to list the links at the beginning of each
bullet point instead of inside a descriptive sentence. Like this:
- Brickshelf - View old LEGO building
instructions and catalogs at the
BrickShelf archive. - QuickSet - Search LUGNET’s extensive
LEGO set database using the popup
QuickSet utility. - Partsref - Study LEGO and LDraw elements
using the Partsref. - Peeron - Browse inventories of official
LEGO sets at Peeron. - Fibblesnork - Browse the Fibblesnork
LEGO Guide.
This just makes them a little more user-friendly.
I look forward to the changes!
Rick Clark
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What I like best about Suzanne’s design over some of the other proposed here, is
the absence of a visual logo fest.
Hower great looking each (community) logo can be, twenty graphically unrelated
logo’s on one page make an incoherent design and are not helpful to the
first-time visitor. I understand each community/partner site will want to have
their beloved logo on the central hub page, but what first-time visitors need
above all, is short textual introductions to the other sites. Suzanne’s design
gets that perfectly right, while still looking graphically rich by a LUGNet
design of itself.
Maybe alle community/resource sites that want to be on a hub page, should
develop a small icon version of their logo, that is recognizable to people who
know it, but fits in nicely and subduedly when listed in a directory. Ofcourse,
simply decreasing the size of the logo image would not suffice. This may also
involve using the same size and shape for each thumbnail logo, and the same
neutral background color (e.g. a shade of grey).
Eric Brok
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In lugnet.admin.general, Eric Brok wrote:
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Hower great looking each (community) logo can be, twenty graphically
unrelated logo’s on one page make an incoherent design and are not helpful to
the first-time visitor.
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I agree. This is one of the problems with the “busy”-ness that you mentioned in
Jeff’s suggestion: http://news.lugnet.com/admin/general/?n=11334
One thing I really like from Jeff’s suggested graphic is the use of 1x6 bricks
as link buttons. I know, this is also used elsewhere, e.g.:
http://www.brickfest.com/index2.htm But it seems so obviously well-suited, both
graphically and aesthetically. It’s like the community is made up of all these
different bricks stacked together. It’s also easy to add new links without
changing the design--just add another brick to the stack.
Bruce
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Bruce Hietbrink <bnh@chem.ucla.edu> wrote:
> graphically and aesthetically. It's like the community is made up of all these
> different bricks stacked together. It's also easy to add new links without
> changing the design--just add another brick to the stack.
Based on experience, it'd be nice if the words could be made out of actual
displayed on top of the brick image (which could be made in multiple parts
to accomplish this easier), both to avoid contributing to the Pictures of
Text plague and because there's an overhead of effort every time you have
to create a new graphic. Sure, it's not a major chore, but every little
barrier you raise makes the site more of a pain to maintain.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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The site should be HSI (High Speed Internet) friendly and LSI
(Low Speed Internet) friendly. This also means only one site, not two, i.e.
one for Flash and one for others. This makes some people feel left out and
can cause loss of site traffic.
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Echoing the above, to me the current design of Lugnet is very LSI friendly and
logically laid out. In my opinion this makes Lugnet one of the great sites
(similar to Yahoo and Google) and I’m by no means unique in my opinion. Lugnet’s
greatest strength is that without waiting or taxing bandwidth I can enter and
quickly find what I want. On this basis I would actively discourage messing with
the basic formula.
Predominantly, I use Lugnet to view (an occasionally take part in) discussion
groups, read lego news, research sets etc. and a basically text based interface
is ideal for this.
If I want to view a pretty, graphically heavy and therefore slow interface I can
always visit www.lego.com
Therefore, liberal use of javascript is good as are some icons but placing
masses of pretty graphics and flash movies everywhere will just slow down the
experience without actually adding any real benefit beyond asthetics.
By all means “freshen up” Lugnet but please don’t go overboard or mess with
basic formula - Lugnet works! (your success todate is living proof of this).
Andrew...
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In lugnet.admin.general, Andrew Allan wrote:
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The site should be HSI (High Speed Internet) friendly and LSI
(Low Speed Internet) friendly. This also means only one site, not two, i.e.
one for Flash and one for others. This makes some people feel left out and
can cause loss of site traffic.
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Echoing the above, to me the current design of Lugnet is very LSI friendly
and logically laid out. In my opinion this makes Lugnet one of the great
sites (similar to Yahoo and Google) and I’m by no means unique in my opinion.
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You are right. The current LUGNET site is very LSI friendly. I enjoy coming to
this website not just because of its content but also because I don’t have to
wait five minutes for a page to load unlike the LEGO site.
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Lugnet’s greatest strength is that without waiting or taxing bandwidth I can
enter and quickly find what I want. On this basis I would actively discourage
messing with the basic formula.
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Again you are right. More than likely everyone here likes the way this site is
designed.
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Predominantly, I use Lugnet to view (an occasionally take part in) discussion
groups, read lego news, research sets etc. and a basically text based
interface is ideal for this.
If I want to view a pretty, graphically heavy and therefore slow interface I
can always visit www.lego.com
Therefore, liberal use of javascript is good as are some icons but placing
masses of pretty graphics and flash movies everywhere will just slow down the
experience without actually adding any real benefit beyond asthetics.
By all means “freshen up” Lugnet but please don’t go overboard or mess with
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Erik Bush
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"Andrew Allan" <aallan@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:HtDvsD.qBG@lugnet.com...
> Therefore, liberal use of javascript is good...
Not in my book... JavaScript seems to cause problems in the browsers I tend
to use (somewhat old versions of Netscape and MSIE - perhaps I should
upgrade, but I just don't have the time to upgrade to every new browser
version over my dialup line). Netscape likes to go into hibernation while
running JavaScript (the whole app locks up for close to a minute - makes
browsing painfully slow), and MSIE likes to barf on JavaScript errors,
making you answer 10 dialog boxes in order to view the site, then it is
non-functional because some critical piece of dynamic content is dead. Then
there's JavaScript "links" that force opening a new window (I prefer good
old HREF links that let ME decide to open a new window or not). I also used
to use a version of Netscape that would periodically crash on JavaScript so
I had to disable JavaScript (the most painful thing that resulted from that
was that I couldn't use some BrickShelf links because the redirect was done
with JavaScript instead of the HTML re-direct tag).
So you will see me being an advocate for the capability of older browsers to
be able to use the site without too much pain. If something can be done with
plain old HTML, do it that way.
Frank
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In lugnet.admin.general, Frank Filz wrote:
> I had to disable JavaScript (the most painful thing that resulted from that
> was that I couldn't use some BrickShelf links because the redirect was done
> with JavaScript instead of the HTML re-direct tag).
Which could very easily be changed to send the correct Location redirect header,
so that it would be completely invisible to the user...
--Bram
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In lugnet.admin.general, Frank Filz wrote:
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So you will see me being an advocate for the capability of older browsers to
be able to use the site without too much pain. If something can be done with
plain old HTML, do it that way.
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I agree with Frank here 100%. Not everybody has Javascript enabled, and if they
have to fool around with their browser settings every time they want to visit,
that’ll drive people away if nothing will.
Showers are great places for thinking. Random thoughts from the tub:
LUGNET is not LEGOFan.net. Therefore while links to all the other major sites
would be nice, that should not be the primary purpose. Furthermore, any newbies
that visit looking for other sites are going to use it once, then bookmark
straight to their site of choice - not LUGNET. So I think that while links would
be a good thing, they should not be the focus. A sidebar, perhaps (like
Classic-Castle’s).
Re: the logofest: I think like Erik said, we need to be byte-concious. I
think a goal should be to keep the entire frontpage loading size to 100KB or
less. That will keep loading time for dialups at around two seconds and for
33KB/sec’ers that’ll be around four seconds. The average user will find a
different website if the page takes longer than twelve seconds to load. I don’t
know what kind of traffic LUGNET gets, but I don’t think the front page should
be slow to load. If anything I think it should be the fastest thing - after all,
it’s really only an umpteen-way intersection.
Links to other sites: above I said I think the links to other sites should
not be the focus. However, I don’t see anything wrong with logos or buttons. The
standard 90-pixel button would be fine, I think. Even a dozen of them won’t take
too long to load, provided they’re compressed properly.
Tim mentioned a middle section of the site perhaps being devoted to news and
such. When I visited BZPower yesterday, I liked their system of having
‘reporters.’ It occurred to me that a ‘latest news’ system could be easily
managed by delegating one or perhaps more people to each major site (BrickLink,
BZPower, LEGO.com, BrickShelf, 1000steine, etc). They would be responsible for
“reporting” anything of particular wide interest. A blog sort of system could be
easily set up to handle this.
Usually when someone arrives at a website, their eye movement starts at the
center of the page, then makes a large circle outward from about 9 o’clock. Thus
a good frontpage design should have the most important stuff at the right side
(maybe the main sidebar), then the middle important news, then stuff of lesser
importance on the side (the left sidebar could be a dynamic thing, only loading
on certain pages (that would require more than HTML - php can do it, and
probably ASP) as is appropriate to the content) and finally the least important
stuff (footer, maybe a large table of button/logo links) at the bottom. Whatever
you do, *don’t* put the main sidebar on the left. Natural eye movement is from
left to right, top to bottom (in printed matter - electronic media usually
follows the circle I described earlier), so put the most important stuff like
navbars where people will see it first. Don’t make it mentally hard to move
around the page.
And right about then my shower was over, so that was as far as I thought.
Perhaps some of them will be good thoughts.
Oh, one other thing - I agree with whoever it was that said they like’d
Suzanne’s proto. It’s clean, it’s stylish and it’s fast loading. Plus it appears
to be mostly text and therefore won’t be a pain to load even on a slow day.
-Mike
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In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Thorn wrote:
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Re: the logofest: I think like Erik said, we need to be byte-concious. I
think a goal should be to keep the entire frontpage loading size to 100KB or
less.
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I was thinking more like 50KB or less. The current homepage weighs in at
44.2KB, of which 27.7KB of this is images. It’s pretty easy to keep small
images down to 1 or 2 KB each (or even less) if care is taken. Many of the
LUGNET toolbar icons are 0.2 to 0.5 KB.
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That will keep loading time for dialups at around two seconds and for
33KB/sec’ers that’ll be around four seconds. The average user will find a
different website if the page takes longer than twelve seconds to load.
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So if it takes eleven seconds to load, they stay, and if it takes thirteen
seconds to load, they bolt?
I think what actually matters is how quickly the first approximation to the
final rendered page appears. When the width and height attributes of all
the image tags are set properly, the body text of the page loads almost
immediately, followed by the images over the next few seconds (on a slow
connection). The difference between 4 seconds and 10 seconds is minor if you
immediately see content that you can begin reading and if it’s obvious that the
images will finish loading an a finite amount of time. That said, I agree that
faster is always better.
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I don’t know what kind of traffic LUGNET gets,
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Currently about 70 GB/month.
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but I don’t think the front page should be slow to load. If anything I
think it should be the fastest thing - after all, it’s really only an
umpteen-way intersection.
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Fast is good :) but there will always be text-only pages on the site that are
still faster.
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Usually when someone arrives at a website, their eye movement starts at
the center of the page, then makes a large circle outward from about 9
o’clock.
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Interesting...I’ve never heard that. Is that information from a study of
end-users of a variety of different websites?
--Todd
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
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I was thinking more like 50KB or less. The current homepage weighs in at
44.2KB, of which 27.7KB of this is images. It’s pretty easy to keep small
images down to 1 or 2 KB each (or even less) if care is taken. Many of the
LUGNET toolbar icons are 0.2 to 0.5 KB.
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Excellent. I just did a homepage image count and found six, including the
BrickFest logo. If we were to have button links for a bunch of major sites, this
could get heavy fast. That’s why I aimed at 100KB - but the lower the better.
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So if it takes eleven seconds to load, they stay, and if it takes thirteen
seconds to load, they bolt?
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Well, it’s not a Law of Thermo, of course, but it’s a good rule of thumb. I
cannot find the reference in the book I thought I had found that in originally -
if I find it I’ll elaborate.
The general idea was that twelve seconds is about the max people these days are
willing to wait for a page to load. If it takes longer than that, they’re quite
likely to find another site to get their information.
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I think what actually matters is how quickly the first approximation to the
final rendered page appears. When the width and height attributes of all
the image tags are set properly, the body text of the page loads almost
immediately, followed by the images over the next few seconds (on a slow
connection). The difference between 4 seconds and 10 seconds is minor if you
immediately see content that you can begin reading and if it’s obvious that
the images will finish loading an a finite amount of time. That said, I
agree that faster is always better.
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And I agree with what you said there. Part of the waiting time too is your
server - a slow server will drive away potential visitors if nothing will.
However, with what you said in mind, we need to be careful that we don’t design
the majority of the layout around images. As an example, look at the homepage of
Plastikaa. It’s made up
entirely of images and Pictures Of Text, and compared with the LUGNET homepage
is frustrating to load, because all you see is image placeholders until
everything loads. I’m sure the owner of that site tried to optimize his images,
but if you have a very slow connection I imagine you wouldn’t want to surf that
site much more than you absolutely had to.
With that said, a lot of the positioning done with little spacer images on
that site could be done fairly accurately (perhaps even easily if the stylesheet
mentioned earlier is as good as it’s made out to be) using CSS.
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I don’t know what kind of traffic LUGNET gets,
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Currently about 70 GB/month.
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I know these numbers will be way off (ie higher than they should be), but at
least that’ll make it conservative.
First let’s assume that the homepage traffic accounts for, say...20% of the
traffic. That’s probably too high but it’ll work. (that’s about 14 million KB)
If we evenly divide that by 45KB (one homepage hit) that comes out to be about
311,100 visitors per month. Now, if we make the new homepage 100KB per hit,
we’re talking around 31GB of traffic just right there.
Perhaps I’ll agree with you and say that the new page should weigh in at 50KB or
less. :) Maybe 75KB if we need to stretch it (that’s about 23GB).
How far off are my numbers? Do you have an actual homepage hit count somewhere?
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Fast is good :) but there will always be text-only pages on the site that are
still faster.
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Of course, like the short threads. But what I’m saying is that even if the rest
of the site is slow(er) to load, a fast homepage will do its share to keep
visitors from being driven away by slow load times.
And if it’s just the homepage we’re revamping here, I think the load times for
the current other pages is just dandy. Doesn’t get much better than this.
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Interesting...I’ve never heard that. Is that information from a study of
end-users of a variety of different websites?
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I personally don’t know the answer to that, but as the man who taught it has
been in the graphic design business a while and has written at least one book on
the subject, I would say he probably knows what he’s talking about.
We all probably confirm this ourselves. When we visit a new website, typically
the first place we look is the left side or the masthead. The natural
left-to-right motion takes our eye then to the right side of the page, then
farther down.
-Mike
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Mike Thorn wrote:
>
> We all probably confirm this ourselves. When we visit a new website,
> typically the first place we look is the left side or the masthead.
> The natural left-to-right motion takes our eye then to the right side
> of the page, then farther down.
You do realise there's nothing *natural* about that? Not even half the
worlds population read text in the direction we happen to be using.
Also, with the way most advertisements show up on pages, many people tend to
ignore both the left and right margins.
I don't dispute that the center of the page is where most people look first,
but where the eye wanders off after that is not so determined.
Jacob Nielsens studies, http://www.useit.com is quite a good read about
usability of web pages.
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000514.html Eyetracking Study of Web Readers
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9710a.html How Users Read On The Web
and a lot more...
--
Anders Isaksson, Sweden
BlockCAD: http://user.tninet.se/~hbh828t/proglego.htm
Gallery: http://user.tninet.se/~hbh828t/gallery/index.htm
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In lugnet.admin.general, Anders Isaksson wrote:
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Mike Thorn wrote:
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We all probably confirm this ourselves. When we visit a new website,
typically the first place we look is the left side or the masthead.
The natural left-to-right motion takes our eye then to the right side
of the page, then farther down.
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You do realise there’s nothing *natural* about that? Not even half the
worlds population read text in the direction we happen to be using.
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Correct - but all readers of English go left to right. Those that read Hebrew
may go right to left, but they won’t be doing that here (and if they are it
serves them right to be confused).
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Jacob Nielsens studies, http://www.useit.com is quite a good read about
usability of web pages.
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000514.html Eyetracking Study of Web Readers
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9710a.html How Users Read On The Web
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Thanks for posting those. I’ll look into it.
-Mike
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In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Thorn wrote:
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Correct - but all readers of English go left to right. Those that read Hebrew
may go right to left, but they won’t be doing that here (and if they are it
serves them right to be confused).
|
Only Hebrew reads right-to-left? Huh! Last time I checked, Arabic (which is
somewhat common in the world?), is also written right-to-left. And if Lugnet
wants to be international, it should take that into consideration along with
other character set postings, and non-text navigations.
Dan
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In lugnet.admin.general, Dan Boger wrote:
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In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Thorn wrote:
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Correct - but all readers of English go left to right. Those that read
Hebrew may go right to left, but they won’t be doing that here (and if they
are it serves them right to be confused).
|
Only Hebrew reads right-to-left? Huh! Last time I checked, Arabic (which is
somewhat common in the world?), is also written right-to-left. And if Lugnet
wants to be international, it should take that into consideration along with
other character set postings, and non-text navigations.
|
I just picked Hebrew as an example. :)
While I agree that we should be aiming for international compliance, I think
there’s only so far that we can go. It would not be a good thing to just align
everything down the centre of the page to make sure it works evenly from right
or left.
A part of me also says...how many Hebrew or Arabic readers are there here? Is it
that much of an issue?
I don’t mean to downplay your very valid points here, I’m just asking.
-Mike
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Anders Isaksson wrote:
> Mike Thorn wrote:
> >
> > We all probably confirm this ourselves. When we visit a new website,
> > typically the first place we look is the left side or the masthead.
> > The natural left-to-right motion takes our eye then to the right side
> > of the page, then farther down.
>
> You do realise there's nothing *natural* about that? Not even half the
> worlds population read text in the direction we happen to be using.
>
> Also, with the way most advertisements show up on pages, many people tend to
> ignore both the left and right margins.
As most webpages have the navigation/menu on the left hand side, there's where I
expect to find it if I need it.
Having it turn on and off causes the main text to move around on the page,
unless a blank space is reserved (which, in itself, is a bad thing).
--
Best regards,
/Tobbe
<http://www.lotek.nu>
(remove SPAM when e-mailing)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Hi!
Some quick thoughts;
- Something on the mainpage must keep changing, todays system with hot posts is
good. A poll might do.
- Better info on how to start posting vs. becomming a member. I know Todd had
some thoughts on this earlier that sounded great!
- CLSotW should stay, either weekly or monthly. There are enough material for
weekly but the time to really review sites before voting suggest less
freqvently? Everybody should be able to vote, not just members.
- If different languages could be applied it would be awesome! I'm game for the
Swedish translation.
- The frontpage should remain simple and clean. Perhaps remove the ng-shortcuts
and add the links to other sites in the "hub". How do we single out these? If
Lugnet is to be a true hub (apart from an excellent community) perhaps the Hot
Topics should go to? How about displaying the three hottest topics in various
forums? It if can be done automagically.
- Possible improvements to the forum:
+ Ability to view replies to your own posts in a simple way
+ Keep the dots-tree! It's not an improvement but a must in my book :)
+ Some way to start reading where you left off, even if you change computers
+ Perhaps some way to display the dot's to the right instead of "Active treads
in..." as an option. Can come in handy in large treads above the 100-dot's mark.
- Perhaps Todd can write something that guarantees someone else may take over
Lugnet is this would need to happen. This sounds like the most important thing
about The Other Sugeestions™.
Work calls, I'll be back :)
--
Best regards,
/Tobbe
<http://www.lotek.nu>
(remove SPAM when e-mailing)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> - CLSotW should stay, either weekly or monthly. There are enough material for
> weekly but the time to really review sites before voting suggest less
> freqvently? Everybody should be able to vote, not just members.
Oh, some sort of "Display random past pick" would be cool! Of course this
suggests some work to keep the database of sites up to date or disabling dead
sites.
/T
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Tobbe Arnesson wrote:
<snip>
> - Perhaps Todd can write something that guarantees someone else may take over
> Lugnet is this would need to happen. This sounds like the most important thing
> about The Other Sugeestions™.
Looks like the need has gone missing:
http://news.lugnet.com/announce/?n=2421
Well played Todd!
/Tobbe
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> - Possible improvements to the forum:
> + Ability to view replies to your own posts in a simple way
> + Keep the dots-tree! It's not an improvement but a must in my book :)
> + Some way to start reading where you left off, even if you change computers
> + Perhaps some way to display the dot's to the right instead of "Active treads
> in..." as an option. Can come in handy in large treads above the 100-dot's mark.
+ When browsing the "20 more" links here http://news.lugnet.com it would be
cool if I could choose to only se the topics and not all replies as well.
--
Best regards,
/Tobbe
<http://www.lotek.nu>
(remove SPAM when e-mailing)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and
see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a link
to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that
goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally
rules.
--Todd
|
Heres my Idea!
I know it doesnt look much different but I made it in paint so you cant do much
more than what I have already done ;-)
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/jmbarnas/iconz/lugnet.jpg
-- Jeff
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Jeff Barnas wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and
see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a
link to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where
that goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that
totally rules.
--Todd
|
|
Heres my Idea!
I know it doesnt look much different but I made it in paint so you cant do
much more than what I have already done ;-)
-- Jeff
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/jmbarnas/iconz/lugnet.jpg
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
| |
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example
FBTB, BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron,
BrickSet, BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage,
but rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes.
(Except excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider
it a blank whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add
your ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap
and see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post
a link to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see
where that goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage
that totally rules.
--Todd
|
|
|
Heres my Idea!
I know it doesnt look much different but I made it in paint so you cant do
much more than what I have already done ;-)
-- Jeff
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/jmbarnas/iconz/lugnet.jpg
The small “MY LUGNET” lego smiley referrs to this post
http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=45627
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Todd Lehman wrote:
> Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
> excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
> the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is iconic
> links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB, BZPower,
> 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet, BrickShelf,
> LEGO.com, and so forth.
I think this makes sense for non members only. Usually, the members
already know what they're looking for, so according to their
preferences, they should get the best page. That means page with the
stuff they like and few extraordinary tidbids from other LEGO worlds. I,
for example don't care for Bionicle, what should the link/icon for
BZPower take take the place on my 'welcome' page, but OTOH, I would like
to see something as extraordinary as the Alien Queen
(http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=61438).
RSS feeds from other sites filtered on keywords set in my preferences.
Yahoo-like directory of links mantained by members.
Gallery of newest MOCs (also filtered), with user comments/ratings.
Could be also linked with inventories on Peeron. Some people simply
don't have that imagination or don't know all the tricks yet, so
building other's MOCs helps. So if such a person clicks on Try to build
for a particular MOC, it gets transferred to Peeron just to see some
parts are missing, and clicking on such parts would lead the person on
Bricklink...
Hey, isn't this that WorldLUG/LEGOFan idea again? Seems so, so please
disregard this message ;-)
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and
see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a link
to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that
goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally
rules.
|
This is in reply to the new site design and take lugnet to a new level post
While the new site is being developed and tested, place it at lugnet.org once it
is finalized .org will become the “official” site. This is consistant with
developing a non-profit. The .com address can then be used as the “beta” site
for site upgrades
Lester
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
lester witter <witter@erim-int.com> wrote:
> While the new site is being developed and tested, place it at lugnet.org
> once it is finalized .org will become the "official" site. This is
> consistant with developing a non-profit. The .com address can then be
> used as the "beta" site for site upgrades
Moving to lugnet.org is a great idea. However, I think that making
lugnet.com a beta site could be confusing -- old links would get broken,
and people who are just guessing might pick .com. I think lugnet.com links
should eventually transparently redirect to the equivalent .org location.
(Something like "beta.lugnet.org" could be used for testing instead.
Having a test site is a good idea too.)
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> lester witter <witter@erim-int.com> wrote:
> > While the new site is being developed and tested, place it at lugnet.org
> > once it is finalized .org will become the "official" site. This is
> > consistant with developing a non-profit. The .com address can then be
> > used as the "beta" site for site upgrades
>
> Moving to lugnet.org is a great idea. However, I think that making
> lugnet.com a beta site could be confusing -- old links would get broken,
> and people who are just guessing might pick .com. I think lugnet.com links
> should eventually transparently redirect to the equivalent .org location.
>
> (Something like "beta.lugnet.org" could be used for testing instead.
> Having a test site is a good idea too.)
I think we have bigger fish to fry w/r/t LUGNET than moving it to .org. That's a
decision we can make later, once the new infrastructure for maintaining LUGNET
is in place.
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Tim Courtney <tim.courtney@SPAMCAKE.zacktron.com> wrote:
> I think we have bigger fish to fry w/r/t LUGNET than moving it to .org.
> That's a decision we can make later, once the new infrastructure for
> maintaining LUGNET is in place.
Hey, there's plenty of oil and breading.
But seriously, names are important.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Tim Courtney <tim.courtney@SPAMCAKE.zacktron.com> wrote:
> > I think we have bigger fish to fry w/r/t LUGNET than moving it to .org.
> > That's a decision we can make later, once the new infrastructure for
> > maintaining LUGNET is in place.
>
> Hey, there's plenty of oil and breading.
>
> But seriously, names are important.
Yep, they're important. I didn't mean to come across as implying considering
this was a bad idea. I just would rather see peoples' creative energies put into
the transition at this point, and then consider the name change later. That's
all. One for the back burner, in my view.
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
(canceled)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
> In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > Tim Courtney <tim.courtney@SPAMCAKE.zacktron.com> wrote:
> > > I think we have bigger fish to fry w/r/t LUGNET than moving it to .org.
> > > That's a decision we can make later, once the new infrastructure for
> > > maintaining LUGNET is in place.
> >
> > Hey, there's plenty of oil and breading.
> > But seriously, names are important.
>
> Yep, they're important. I didn't mean to come across as implying
> considering this was a bad idea. I just would rather see peoples'
> creative energies put into the transition at this point, and then
> consider the name change later. That's all. One for the back burner,
> in my view.
I don't see it as an all-or-nothing thing. Setting up a secondary new
box as *.lugnet.org is definitely easier and less problematic than setting
it up as *.beta.lugnet.com in the near-term, because of various DNS issues.
Setting up lugnet.org soon is an excellent transitional step.
I'm glad that lugnet.org was suggested, and bringing a new box up that way
will give us a flavor of how it "feels" for the URL to be on a .org domain,
and see if that feels more right or more wrong than a .com domain. (I'm
not against a wholesale moving of lugnet.com to lugnet.org someday but just
because we wouldn't do the actual move anytime soon doesn't mean we can't
bring up test content there sooner rather than later.) Initially, the new
box will have to be on a separate second-level domain, so that might as well
be lugnet.org.
--Todd
[xfut -> .admin.general]
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Lester Witter wrote:
> While the new site is being developed and tested, place it at lugnet.org once
> it is finalized .org will become the "official" site. This is consistant with
> developing a non-profit. The .com address can then be used as the "beta" site
> for site upgrades
I've always woundered why lugnet.com never was lug.net instead?
It's registered now (by CIA but I can't find any homepage at http://lug.net or
http://www.lug.net) but has it always been?
In the same line, 3Com should have http://3.com
I wanted to register lug.se but some Linux Users Group beat me to it :(
--
Best regards,
/Tobbe
<http://www.lotek.nu>
(remove SPAM when e-mailing)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would be an
excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET resources,
the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET homepage is
iconic links to other major community sites and resources, for example FBTB,
BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org, Peeron, BrickSet,
BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage, but
rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes. (Except
excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.) Consider it a blank
whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML cap and
see what you can come up with. When you have something to share, post a link
to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that
goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally
rules.
--Todd
|
Todd -
I think it would be a good idea to set up a wish list for new LUGNET features
and the LUGNET homepage, so we can look at them concisely, and prioritize them.
Then we won’t have to look through big threads to find all of the suggestions.
It would be *really* neat if members could vote to prioritize the links
themselves.
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
| |
Todd -
I think it would be a good idea to set up a wish list for new LUGNET features
and the LUGNET homepage, so we can look at them concisely, and prioritize
them. Then we won’t have to look through big threads to find all of the
suggestions.
|
Be my guest. :) You can start an FTX page for this in your own member page
area or one could be started within a common area.
--Todd
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
| |
Todd -
I think it would be a good idea to set up a wish list for new LUGNET
features and the LUGNET homepage, so we can look at them concisely, and
prioritize them. Then we won’t have to look through big threads to find all
of the suggestions.
|
Be my guest. :) You can start an FTX page for this in your own member page
area or one could be started within a common area.
--Todd
|
OK, I went through the thread and compiled suggestions, and roughly prioritized
them. The prioritization is based on my opinion of importance combined with
feasibility. So, something important might appear lower simply because I know it
will be a bit more technically difficult, so other items theoretically could be
churned out first.
Always open to input. See the wish list at:
http://news.lugnet.com/org/wishlist
When it is a good time to move forward on the new homepage, I suggest selecting
a small task force to do the work. In my view, this should include someone
familiar with the LUGNET software, someone well versed in CSS, and a graphic
designer.
Thoughts?
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
Great list. Makes it much easier to summarize ideas and thoughts. Thanks for
putting that together.
| |
When it is a good time to move forward on the new homepage, I suggest
selecting a small task force to do the work. In my view, this should include
someone familiar with the LUGNET software, someone well versed in CSS, and a
graphic designer.
|
I have no experience with the LUGNET stuff but I’ve worked with CSS before. I’ll
volunteer as your graphic designer.
-Mike
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Thorn wrote:
| |
In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
Great list. Makes it much easier to summarize ideas and thoughts. Thanks for
putting that together.
| |
When it is a good time to move forward on the new homepage, I suggest
selecting a small task force to do the work. In my view, this should include
someone familiar with the LUGNET software, someone well versed in CSS, and a
graphic designer.
|
I have no experience with the LUGNET stuff but I’ve worked with CSS before.
I’ll volunteer as your graphic designer.
|
Hi Mike -
Glad to hear you’re interested! I’m curious, could you link us to some of your
past work?
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney wrote:
| |
Hi Mike -
Glad to hear you’re interested! I’m curious, could you link us to some of
your past work?
|
Sure. The only stuff that’s online at the moment:
The logo for Bill Swanberg of Bartering The Brick:
http://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?u=swanberg&viewType=shop
A collection of practice ads done for a ficitious company:
http://www.roboticsresources.com/sca/dp6.html
And the RoboticsResources.com logo:
http://www.roboticsresources.com/
I have a bunch of small stuff on my harddrive that I’ve done as well. If you
care to see those let me know and I’ll send them to you.
-Mike
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Tim Courtney <tim.courtney@SPAMCAKE.zacktron.com> wrote:
> Always open to input. See the wish list at:
> [<http://news.lugnet.com/org/wishlist>]
Here's a few more of mine. These are entirely newsgroup features, and
aren't necessarily high priority _or_ easy. But I would like to see 'em
get into at least the bottom of the wishlist somewhere.
-- Display identity-images (avatars, or whatever) by each post (in
various sizes in the different views. I think this really aids in
creating a sense of community. Not that we don't have one already.
Plus it's fun.
-- Track read/unread articles, as you mention, but in more depth:
- interface to show just unread, just read, or a mix (perhaps show
just unread in the page view, but have all articles in the thread
dots)
- interface to mark posts and groups and ranges as read/unread
- different colors for read/unread in the dot view
- list of subscribed groups with unread posts
- "inbox" of all new messages from subscribed groups (this might be
a good place to highlight posts which are replies to your own)
-- Ability to create private newsgroups (or at least web groups and
mailing lists, initially)
-- Strip out FTX (or rather, pretty-print) when displaying via NNTP
-- Put the lugnet.com (or .org) URL of each post in the headers of each
message -- nice for utilizing the best of both interfaces
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Tim Courtney <tim.courtney@SPAMCAKE.zacktron.com> wrote:
> > Always open to input. See the wish list at:
> > [<http://news.lugnet.com/org/wishlist>]
>
> Here's a few more of mine. These are entirely newsgroup features, and
> aren't necessarily high priority _or_ easy. But I would like to see 'em
> get into at least the bottom of the wishlist somewhere.
Added, to their own group at the bottom. So they're not necessarily lowest
priority :-)
Bedtime.
-Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
If you have thoughts or a wishlist
|
posting a .dat file at:
http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/
the server automatically generates an image (see thumbnails at ldraw.org).
thx, w.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Hi,
Some clarifications below...
--Todd
In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
| |
Someone brought this up at BrickFest PDX and others agreed it would
be an excellent idea: Rather than mainly linking to internal LUGNET
resources, the first thing someone should see when they visit the LUGNET
homepage is iconic links to other major community sites and resources,
for example FBTB, BZPower, 1000steine.de, BrickLink, BrikTrak, LDraw.org,
Peeron, BrickSet, BrickShelf, LEGO.com, and so forth.
|
This could also be on a “tab” or something someone selects on the homepage,
rather than the very first things someone sees.
| |
Accordingly, I would like to task the community to come up with a brand new
homepage for LUGNET.
|
To clarify this, I meant for there to be submissions and proposals,
exchange of ideas, and critiques of mock-ups, etc., involving anyone
who wanted to put something forth.
However, this doesn’t necessarily mean that Suzanne’s
future prototype page would be
thrown out. In fact, what she came up with there is quite excellent,
and the best thing we have so far. The question in my mind is whether
or not something else would serve better? Perhaps, and perhaps not.
| |
What kind of changes? I don’t mean a facelift to the existing homepage,
but rather a complete redesign from the ground up. Anything goes.
(Except excessive JavaScript and proprietary stuff like Flash.)
Consider it a blank whiteboard.
If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add
your ideas. If you have mad HTML skills, by all means put on that HTML
cap and see what you can come up with.
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And by this I meant: feel free to post proposals/ideas. We’re not looking
first for a graphic designer and then for ideas from that person. We’re
simply looking for ideas, and anyone is free to submit ideas.
I think Suzanne will probably make the final call on the homepage, if she
feels like getting involved.
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When you have something to share, post a link
to it, solicit public critique, make improvements, and let’s see where that
goes. Perhaps within a week we could have a honkin’ homepage that totally
rules.
--Todd
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
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Hi,
Some clarifications below...
--Todd
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SNIP
I tried to come up with a few simplified & fun designs for pages, my fave being
this (within this thread, but linked so you don’t have to wade thru posts
again):
http://news.lugnet.com/admin/general/?n=11421
one of the great suggestions i got was that the images may be a little much for
slow connections, but i also neglected to mention in my post that i intended
that all the text would be just text, but with image behind it, to speed loading
(it might not work as planned, but i’m not knowledgeable of web-language design.
also, my other ideas are previous posts or replys to the aforementioned link
(just move ‘up’ or ‘down’ in the thread.)
Jeff
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How about a page that we create ourselves out of options that are kept ion a
cookie? Let me explain. The first time you come to Lugnet, you get a general
page welcoming you and with a clear menu to personnalize the front page. When
you go to the “edit front page” menu, you select which features you want, like
let’s say a random link, a given umber of links to other LEGO websites, a random
image of a model, a moc, etc. People would be “forced” to keep the highlighted
news feature and some other LUGNET functionnalities, but a big part of the page
could be personnalized easily by checking checkboxes, etc.
This would make of Lugnet THE main page for anyone, since we all could link it
to our favorite LEGO pages. I don’t like Bionicles, so away goes BZPower
links. I like Space on the other hand, so here comes the .space news and links
to Classic-Space and other space websites. Heaven for AFOLs!
LMKWYT!
Terry
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Terry Prosper wrote:
> This would make of Lugnet THE main page for anyone, since we all could link it
> to our favorite LEGO pages. I don't like Bionicles, so away goes BZPower
> links. I like Space on the other hand, so here comes the .space news and links
> to Classic-Space and other space websites. Heaven for AFOLs!
Hi,
I think I proposed the very same thing in my previous post from 'Fri, 20
Feb 2004 15:41:56 GMT' in this thread too.
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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Todd, et al:
Here is a quick and dirty idea for a new home page. I cobbled it together in
photoshop. It is relativly unpopulated and it not very space-optimized. But
I hope you get the idea:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=667384
The idea is the left column is Lugnet-specific stuff, the right column is
worldwide commumity stuff and the middle column is temporaral stuff.
--Jim
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In lugnet.admin.general, Jim Hughes wrote:
| |
Todd, et al:
Here is a quick and dirty idea for a new home page. I cobbled it together in
photoshop. It is relativly unpopulated and it not very space-optimized. But
I hope you get the idea:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=667384
The idea is the left column is Lugnet-specific stuff, the right column is
worldwide commumity stuff and the middle column is temporaral stuff.
--Jim
|
Very nice! My only complaint is that all the black is gone, leaving the page
with too much white space. But everything else is great.
Marc Nelson Jr.
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In lugnet.admin.general, Todd Lehman wrote:
> If you have thoughts or a wishlist, please reply to this thread and add your
> ideas.
> --Todd
I'm not sure, if I'm the only one using the LUGNET database for consulting
before buying sets?
I find the notes (and the ratings) very useable, and I spend just as much time
browsing the database as I do browsing the Newsgroups.
I also use Huw's database on Brickset, but the ratings there is mostly 10 or 0,
and most of the notes are infantile and unusable for advice. However, there is
one excellent feature that I truly miss on LUGNET, and that is the "New Reviews"
feature.
It would be very nice (to me, at least!), if there was a similar "New notes"
(and maybe "New ratings") on LUGNET as well.
But if I'm the only one reading the notes, there's of course no need for this.
regards
Arne, Copenhagen
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> But if I'm the only one reading the notes, there's of course no need for this.
I hope your not the only one since I try to review each set I get and add a link
to the PAUSE Gudie Notes...
--
Best regards,
/Tobbe
<http://www.lotek.nu>
(remove SPAM when e-mailing)
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