Subject:
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Re: Lobsters and Frogs debate...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.pirates
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Date:
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Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:08:20 GMT
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5219 times
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>
> Ahh, dangerous words, those: "perfect plan"... a change in wind or bad luck
> on a reef and its bad business for the British. Though if our infamous
> friend USS Constitution taught us anything, it's that kedging can be a
> cruiser's best friend.
True, True. if the seas got ugly, everything could go haywire.
but, if you want to be succesful-gotta take those risks, dont you?
>
> I'm rather certain Mr. Dulin was completely unaware of the Hornblocker book
> of strategies... actually, that one is rather ironic given our chosen
> building medium -- "don't lock into..."
>
> Best not to forget that ships can ground at night. I prefer cutting out
> expeditions myself, but you know your crews.
i have not forgot that, the rule about grounding. but i am not taking my ships
in-well, a cutter might do, but ill try to avoid it. but ships boats will
probably not ground-and, if they do, they can be shoved off.
Yes, everyone is totally unaware of my strategies exept my freind, Jimmy
Toland. he found out that sometimes what i do is not what im really doing...
My expedition in the Azores should prove interesting. ill use that as a
training mission for my soon-to-be blockade of Port Brique! okay, not blockade,
but i can make myself a pain to port brique...
>
>
> I agree entirely, especially given the geography of Port Brique's
> waterfront. Could be a nasty trap if Frech cavalry find alleys useful, and
> horrid for lobsters if they get caught on the harborfront and French ships
> open fire. Not to forget the fact that, while Royal Marines are steady,
> French Infantry are... formidable. I'd cut out ships first... though guard
> boats are perpetually troublesome.
I will deal with the ships first- since my tactics work better with ships then
with men- and then make an attempt at the harbor itself.
>
>
> Like that time the two frigate Captains surprised that French port... was it
> in the East Indies? Memory fails me. But I must caution, clandestine
> operations can get good crews hung, and they surely failed for a yound
> Midshipman with a name similar to Hornblower, when attempting to confuse the
> Spanish. And I imagine the Port Brique commanders have a good idea of the
> nightly boat routine of their small port.
this is why i have cutters. you wouldnt think i would attack without knowing
what i was doing, would you?
>
> Caution, I believe he's got light horse and voltigeurs. They're unpleasant,
> and while Marines are steady... well, I've said it before: beware.
Ah, i assume this is where my other trick comes in.
So- they are unpleasant. hence, my men run. and because of that, there will be
a rather bad suprise for the Frenchmen when they follow....
>
> It might be counterproductive to spread out your twenty marines out when
> you're attacking. Presumably, you'd have an objective in mind... and that
> leads to force concentration. Sticky issue, best worked out in planning.
No. it would be impossible and rather stupid on my part to have my men go
horns-to-horns with the french. id get beaten. but, if im spread out, throwing
musket balls at the frenchies, constantly reatreating and changing position- i
would have a much better chance at the frenchies.
>
> And while 3-pounders are handy, horse-drawn 6-pounders weilded by the
> formidable French infantry are quite unpleasant in themselves. I'd recommend
> landing light and avoiding getting bogged down with a duel of field guns.
yeah. i was thinking that too. i like small, quick forces, and not huge armys.
?
>
> I'd have to disagree. A good British line batallion would match a good
> French column any day, I assure you. A file of Marines can be fragile in the
> open. Remember, three rounds a minute for those well drilled in tap-loading.
> I'd put steady marines at two, considering their heavy muskets. Granted,
> they'd do well with bayonets, but beware open spaces -- that would play
> right into the hands of steady French infantry, horse, and artillery.
I know. im perfect at "bush warfare". as i have stated, i dont want to come
face to face with the Frenchmen.
and, i dont have a british battalion. i have only three or four dozen marines.
>
> > >
>
> To be fair, that may be something of a misconception brought on by
> hindsight. Much of France was swept up in Napoleon's grandeur; he was their
> salvation after the Bourbons and the Jacobins -- and he was quite
> successful. Keep in mind, he could continually fill armies numbering in the
> hundreds of thousands, and while I find myself displeased by his casual
> opinion of losing them --"What are 10 000 men to me?" -- he remained
> France's icon.
true. but, thousands of the people under boneys conrol-that were not frenchies-
did get tired of fighting. and many frenchmen did too. mostly because: at
almost every engagement, Wellington won.
oh, and another hint on my tactics: bonaparte didnt do well in russia, did he?
>
> To be fair, that may be something of a misconception as well. I've read
> things suggesting Press Gangs were far less... militant than might be
> thought. Often, it wasn't "beat-and-grab" so much as "threaten and usher
> with clubs at the ready" ; )
true. and cut waistbands.
> As I said before, the commander best knows the mood of his crews.
>
> Really tough to say on that point; French Navies were traditionally
> reasonably well crewed, but after Nelson things did... change. Mainly they
> suffered from blockade, and the inability to train at sea. Doesn't seem to
> be a problem for the Port Brique sailors, so one must temper confidence with
> caution.
yes- not a problem for port brique. they havnt known blockade. so, i think that
orders to stopping that will be appropriet.
>
> Lord Sir... hmm... I'd be inclined to suggest 'Commodore the Lord
> Horblocker, Knight of the Order of the Bath' (this is where aides tend to
> prattle on about lengthy lists of accomplishments). A freeboard, eh... poor
> HMS Captain... though that's half a century later.
what is a freeboard!?
>
> No jeune ecole people here! Only once did two frigates carry a French 74...
> Droits de le Homme? Abysmal, my French... sad, becuase I'm Canadian... in
> any case, that was Sir Edward Pellew with two Razees (Indefatigable, Amazon,
> both cut down 64s) and the French vessel couldn't bring all her guns to
> action because of heavy weather and the thousand-or-so French infantry
> aboard. Trying to invade Ireland... sheesh!
i dont want anything larger then a 74. and, im at a loss of bricks to build and
man a 74.
> I like cutters, myself. Handy little ships... if they stay away from ships
> of the line. Well, unless it happens to be Lord Cochrane and a Spanish ship
> of the line. But that doesn't count for so many reasons...
>
> > ill keep my cutters, but your points here about frigates are the exact reasons
> > why i want one, and not some huge blundering three-decker.
>
> Don't forget Victory. She sailed as handily as a 74 and was known to run
> down frigates in her day. That'd be a depressed frigate Captain, I'd wager.
> I don't care how many 24-pounders you stuff into a 44-gun ship, 98 guns make
> for bad days.
well, yeah. i am not forgetting the Victory. the thing is is that i like speed.
every tactic i have is based on speed. i do not like to stay for lengthy combat.
>
> > > I don't see very many ship-of-the-lines here on Lugnet. :)
> > i can see why.
>
> Not many of us can build them yet, though I haven't given up the dream!
> There are some excellent specimens, though... Floater, Diadem, and a
> Korean-built ship:
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=28052
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=21199
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=4470
>
> > > This is an interresting little debate. Keep it up, as long as it stays civil.
>
> Pray God so, sir!
>
> > ill try to keep it at that.
> > >
> > > Coming soon... John Blockford's mercenary force
> > > http://jhkruer.com/piratet.jpg
> >
> > Cant wait
> > >
> > > To aid the highest bidder, or higher thinker. Money is the biggest
> > > motivator. :)
> > > -JHK
> Cash or cheque? Admiralty is (as ever) facing difficulties being as
> omnipotent as their lordships might like.
>
> > Ill see what prize money i can get from the Azores. maby ill hire you! :)
>
> I must ask, what year is Mr. Hornblocker deploying in? His prevailing status
> at see strikes me as post-Trafalgar (a good time to be a British sailor, as
> Saumarez would attest). Reminds me of Captain Richard Dacres, of HMS
> Guerrier, frigate (38), on the North American station, in 1812.
I have changed hornblocks name to Hornriker. pronounced: Horn- Rike- Er.
Mr.Dulin is correct- there are far to many hornblockrickherish characters round
here.
Hornriker was in the Battle of the Nile as a midshipman. at the time of
Trafalgar he was battleing spanish galleys. it is now eleven years after
trafalgar. i have skipped a decent bit of his coreer to get on to him being a
commodore.
> If you're ever in the North Atlantic, Brickley's Cover is not posh but it's
> well suited to light craft, and it's imminently British.
>
> Pax Britannia!
>
> Kenneth Tam
> Brickley's Cove
> http://members.rogers.com/brickleyscove/Home.htm
Commodore sir Hornriker.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Lobsters and Frogs debate...
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| Ahoy, I wasn't going to reply... but: (...) Freeboard is the distance from the waterline to the gunnels (or from waterline to weather deck on a ship). Vessels with little freeboard tend not to do well in rough seas. Cheers Richie Dulin (24 years ago, 3-Apr-03, to lugnet.pirates)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Lobsters and Frogs debate...
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| Gentlemen, I've been watching this debate develop for a while... forgive my lengthy and belated commentary. (...) Ahh, dangerous words, those: "perfect plan"... a change in wind or bad luck on a reef and its bad business for the British. Though if (...) (24 years ago, 1-Apr-03, to lugnet.pirates)
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