 | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Timothy Gould
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| | | (...) b) is a pretty important point for me. I don't have such a large collection and I often get ideas that I'd like to build. I am probably quicker building the CAD anyway and then I can fiddle around with the model in the brick afterwards if I (...) (19 years ago, 31-Aug-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Chris Magno
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| | | | Tim Gould wrote: > (...) YES but once again no one has addressed the STEEP learning curve to the novice. thats all. its just that these products are not "intuitive." and just for LAR - everyone has stated that we LIKE the Lxxx products, and serve a (...) (19 years ago, 31-Aug-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | (...) (snip laudatory comments) (...) Let's try quoting the whole thing that I said, shall we, instead of quoting out of context? (...) I stand by what I say, LDD is in my view harder to use, by far, than any of the LDraw editors, at least for (...) (19 years ago, 31-Aug-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Calum Tsang
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| | | | (...) I can't honestly say they're THAT much better. I've had equal frustration with both the LDraw editors AND LDD. They're broken in different ways. There's been a lot of effort made to repackage the LDraw tools to make them easier to install, to (...) (19 years ago, 31-Aug-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Timothy Gould
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| | | | | (...) I think that by usability you actually mean learnability which is somewhat different. I agree that most of the Ldraw CAD tools are not that easy to learn. They do not have dedicated teams to make them so. I think that, at heart, CAD is a (...) (19 years ago, 31-Aug-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Calum Tsang
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| | | | | | (...) Learnability is one aspect of usability. If you want to use Jakob Nielsen's definition: (URL) others, such as efficiency, memorability or satisfaction, I cannot comment on, I couldn't get past the first one. Error correction I have to say (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Timothy Gould
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| | | | | | (...) Addressing each of these points (for MLCad as that's what I'm most used to): Learnability: Low Efficiency: Very high (that's where features comes in) Memorability: Decent Errors: Very low (none really) Satisfaction: Highish However the (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Calum Tsang
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| | | | | | (...) I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I would have to ask the question if efficiency and memorability were that important for this CAD system. If you're building the next Airbus 380 or industrial automation, then sure, speed for the (...) (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Timothy Gould
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| | | | | | (...) For whom LDD is, as you've pointed out, probably going to be the better option. (...) For whom the LDraw suite is definitely the better option. (...) Different tools for different tasks (...) Some Open Source software would have UI analysis (...) (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —David Koudys
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| | | | | (...) snip (...) I would never disagree with my esteemed rtl associate, but if I can do it, anyone can do it-- (URL) This was a simple one. My truck, as seen on this page (if you scroll down just a tad) was way more involved, yet still quite easy to (...) (19 years ago, 31-Aug-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | (...) I'm not an active user of Ldraw et al, and haven't been for many years now, but I do maintain an interest. My reasons for no longer being an active user are many and varied, but I wouldn't particularly highlight lack of usability among them. (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Calum Tsang
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| | | | | | (...) Yes and? (...) Listen, any rtlToronto member will clearly tell you I'm the most administrative of anyone here. I administrate for a living. I just came home from a 10 hour stretch of administrating. :) So don't get me wrong, I believe in (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | | | (...) Exactly. It's easy to mock. I've mocked committees before. Heck, I thought the LPRC was an April Fools joke - and look how right I was about that. (...) But the point of enthusiast organisation committees is that they think they need them. If (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | (...) HEY! i was on that "joke" as you call it. and we were VERY SLOWLY making inroads as to where to go. I mean a motion was tabled, someone took charge. items were discussed. I think the LPRC served a purpose and had an outcome that I was pleased (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | (canceled) —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | | a fight at the playground...Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | (...) You mean you had hope that something useful would come from this newsgroup? I guess you haven't been watching very close. (...) That's right. What gives Calum the right to speak his mind? Who put him in charge, anyway? (...) How many examples (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Yeah, I guess you and Chris Magno are right. I really should just set my skip filter and learn not to intrude. The spotlight on the original post and the word CAD pulled me in, sorry. So I suppose I should probably cancel the post? Is there an (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | Don Hesse wrote: >> Personally, I think it's poor taste to come into a newsgroup created for an organization of which you are not a part, and insult the people who ARE part of the organization. Trust me, I know poor taste. I think about it every (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Hey, I just noticed that this place is full of Canadians! What the heck is that aboot, eh? Dave! (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) damn Canadians. Glad I'm not one of them. (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) you, sir, are such a Canadian wannabe... (URL) Steve surrounded by 'Damn Canucks'!! (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) THAT is one GREAT picture. oh those were the days. now look at what we've become. Chris. (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno wrote: <snip> (...) I seem to recall appreciating your edited picture better... Dave K (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) was that the funny edited pic where i put a funny beard and moustace on steve? no, wait... never mind Chris (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) No, thank goodness. Instead, we get the lovely label of "Hoosiers". A word whos very origin is debated (but unflattering). (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) wow. what next? your president telling schools that just MAYBE man was NOT evolved? i prefered it when the biggest worry was the size of a presidents cigar. NOW i have to worry about the price of gas. Chris (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) c'mon - everyone knows man was created by the flying spaghetti monster... (URL) A> (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) ummmmmmm dave. What did you THINK the "Rice Krispies" were made of? of course we are Canadian, the lug is BASED in toronto. we have a few non-Canadian "honorary" members. Ross C Steve H John B Dan/Jen B Mario F i think Jake M is a member? but (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) ... (...) ... Hey. How'd I get on that list? This is not as funny if I actually am part of the organization... Is it poor taste to decline an honorary membership, just so I can mock the real members, when they mock non-members? No, actually, I (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) if you can tell me how Christina H got her pic on the rtl FRONT page, i will be MORE than happy to remove you from the honorary member list. you see steve, its like this: if you DONT have committee then you can do what you want. so really it (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Given the choice of: (A) Christinia (B) Steve Who's picture would you really want on any rtl page? (...) Would that be a dishonorable discharge? Steve ps gas has gone up ~$1.00 (us) in the last two days. (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Oh, wait a minute--I misread the group's title. I thought it meant "organic Californian retail tornados." Silly me! Dave! FUT: lugnet.off-topic.I-K...-I-See-One 8^) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) LMAO!!! :) (...) dave, watch this.... ---...---snip---...--- So if you type in our groups URL as this: (URL) opposed to the correct one: (URL) will see a VASTLY differnt web page. and one that is NOT CORRECT to say the least. (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Like Steve, I'm wondering how I got on that list? I mean, I didn't even ENTER the bloody connect-4 contest... ROSCO (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) ross, YOU showed up at one of our TRAIN events many years ago. The rule is thus: if you show up and are from "out of province" then you get to be an honourary member (if i think your cool) Dem's 'da breaks, big boy. Chris (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Ah yes, I recall - (URL) the first, inaugural, train1>, after I managed to find the place. Guess I'll just have to live with that label too then. ROSCO (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) If you stick around long enough, you just might like the place... (and go 'native') ;) Dave K (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) In fact, every member has the power to cancel their own posts, provided they have access to a news client that has cancel functionality (which means most of them these days). Now all we need is for email and web-based cancel to be (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground...Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Steve Hassenplug wrote: <snip> . (...) C$? Wasn't that an awesome event?? Probably the second best rtl robot event ever!!! (first being block stacking, but I may be slightly biased on that one...) Dave K -who wants this (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground...Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | (...) wow steve. i just dont get it. you won. it was an amazing event, and you had some really nice robots. heck one of them WON you first prize. which as i understand it, your turning into a multi-million dollar BOOK revenue stream. why is that in (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: a fight at the playground...Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Tim David
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| | | | | | | | (...) you can you know (URL) Tim (19 years ago, 5-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | So, I had this HUGE rebuttal to Don's post, and I swear the commuter crashed just before I hit send. I took it as a sign that it was TOO HARSH. so I'm going to summarize it with this: ----snip----- Don, When you are done servicing larry, why dont (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | (...) <snip> There's the Chris I know and love! Dave K -maybe the flurry of posts this is ging to cause will reap Chris the 'ban stick' once again... (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Actually Dave, I still very much fear being banned again. until I ~know~ for certain that the people who took it upon themselves to ban me truly no longer have access to the system, will I then not worry. Chris (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) I find this post offensive. Don is a big contributor to LDraw, and does it in a very selfless way. You don't like the tools fine. Just don't use them. (...) <snip> (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Calum Tsang
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| | | | | | (...) I think you're missing the point of the original post: All this LDraw talk has produced nothing to effect change on the user interface of the actual software programs which I (and several others now) have difficulty with. If you really wish to (...) (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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| | | | | | Re: Am I the only person who finds Lego CAD systems infuriating? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | (...) Hi Calum, You are right. I'm on both the LDraw Steering Committee and the Standards Committee. Speaking for myself, I don't think that it the Steering Committee's job to make MLCad easier to use. We have no control over how it works. We do not (...) (19 years ago, 1-Sep-05, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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