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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) I've never watched the show, but I'm given to wonder if the people to whom it's marketed are themselves disposed to the sort of government depicted on the small screen. I'm loathe to use the term "statist" since it's become something of a (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) lol, and it is because of this self-imposed slavery that we remain the "free-est" and greatest nation on the planet. (...) Wrong. They are the cornerstone of our greatness. Without them we would be nothing. They are sacred, or at least (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Interesting that the same Amendment that you cite condemning his "endorsment" of religion protects his right to do so. But I think you are applying it incorrectly in this case. The First Amendment prohibits congress from establishing (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) A bunch of immigrants were forced to come here. (...) Um...uh...well...we did! (...) to (...) Actually, I largely agree with this. The core of whatever greatness we have claim to (aside from the dumb luck, which is indisputable) is our (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) I guess then that this is up to the Supreme Court to decide? Wait, if the Pledge is 'voluntary' then it's Free Speech--those that don't want to say it don't have to, which then legitimizes my other arguement--if the kid gets picked on, it has (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) See the following. I rather found it interesting: (URL) Oh, he had a private life--the problem is that everyone knew about it! (...) That's not democracy, if one opinion is higher than all others. It may be reality, but it's anathema to the (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Really, read Stephanson. A large part of it was dumb luck, combined with lasseiz-faire attitudes (more out of a realization that the center could not control the edges than anything else) and a cultural touchpoint with the world's preeminent (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
(...) The same could be said about evolution. You can't prove macroeveolution in a lab, it makes no claims that can be tested, it uses no evidence that cannot be used for the S.C. theory (the type I believe in anyway). (...) This is totally (...) (22 years ago, 5-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) "Largest" != greatest. But I think an imperialist attitude is extremely evident in American destinarianism (we're the greatest, therefore everyone else should take our lead). That's going to take us headlong into a bitter squabble with the PRC (...) (22 years ago, 4-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) I know about shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded Theatre arguement--don't get bogged down in semantics. (...) And you're getting bogged down in semantics and slippery slopes--if you're afraid that your kid's going to get beat up 'cause he or she's (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Sorry to pop in in this discussion like this, but I dispute this point of yours. I'd acknowledge the United Kingdom as the greatest nation the world has ever seen, even if its context was considerably different (colonial/imperial, I mean). You (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Uh, just so there's no confusion, I was kidding about the "that's MINE" bit. Dave! (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) I will be more inclined to agree that China has continuously been an extremely important civilization, rather than Egypt (which is now only a part of a much wider culture). But yes, you have a point - ultimately, those who came before laid the (...) (22 years ago, 3-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Hmm. Good point. Still, it's risky for the leader of the nation to take a stance on religion when there's a very real chance of being exclusionary on that basis. (...) Oh, he had a private life--the problem is that everyone knew about it! (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Wow. Strong emotions from a strong people. That said... once again into the fray... (...) Greatest? History, my friend, will see about that. Greeks thought... Romans thought... whatever. Arrogance does not make one great. The ability to take over (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Oh I hate when this happens--I had a most beautiful resonse in the making and I accidentally closed explorer!! Grr!!! K, here goes--take 2 Using West Wing for a basis of research on politics is like using Pretty Woman for the basis of reasearch on (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		real conspiracies?
Hi all, This may be old news, but have y'all read this? (URL) are some pretty nefarious connections suggested by the article. Chris (22 years ago, 30-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) I believe the word you're looking for is 'idealism' (...) And I think it's important for our neighbours to the south to recall that we Canadians play the best Americans on T.V. I can;t speak for the ROC, but I know that I like my entertainment (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) can't) (...) Unless I fill in the blanks first... It was Marbury v. Madison in 1803. From (URL) : The new Constitution declared itself to be the "supreme law of the land a fundamental law binding upon state and federal officers alike. To make (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) I'm confused. I thought David Koudys more likely to sing "God Save Our Gracious Queen" than "My Country Tis of Thee" but I could be wrong. Or is it that he just went to college in CA but is a US citizen after all? I admit it. I can't keep all (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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