 | | Heads up, atheists
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| Here's an article to which I am interested in your reaction: (URL) JOHN (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Well, it's an opinion piece, so we can only dispute the opinion as given. I gather that Hattersly considers himself a nonbeliever, but his beliefs are irrelevant to the validity of his argument, of course. Regardless, here are a few notes: (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| Hi John I’d never have figured you were a fellow Guardian reader. Scott (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) -snip- (...) I agree with Dave completely. Another key weakness of his opinion is that he ignores whether atheists could actively support religious charities for non-religious purposes. Although I am an agnostic, I regularly donate to Heifer (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Heads up, Christians
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| Hey John, I was recently passed an article talking about conservative religion in America, and I'd like your impressions. (URL) > -Lenny (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Thanks for the response, Dave! Okay, so you'd tend to disagree with his supposition:-) What interested me about the piece is the fact that the author claims to be an atheist, so the typical "preaching to the choir" accusation doesn't quite fit (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| (...) That's because I'm not, Scott. I am not really a loyal reader of any particular publication, but seek interesting ideas and perspectives from many places, even "lefty" ones:-) JOHN (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| (...) Hey, Lenny- Do you support them because you feel an obligation towards your fellow man? And if so, from where does that sense eminate? JOHN (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) I don't feel obligated. However, if I want the best world for me and my children and my children's children, then helping others build a future for themselves is the best bet. It is a version of the "self-serving" argument. My family (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, Christians
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| (...) First off, I'd say Moyers is over-reacting a bit. Any Christian who would want to set up any type of Christian theocracy is just as much a fringie as MM is to the Left. Both are to be eschewed IMO. It is not my desire to see the US turned into (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) I'm an atheist, and I tend to agree with that opinion, just not as strongly, ie life is about a *mixture* of MEMEME and caring for others. But if your opinion is your best argument, then I don't think you have much of an argument - the article (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| --SNIP-- (...) I would think that doing good for religious people is more about personal gain than for atheists. Theists always believe that their good deeds will go rewarded by God or Karma or some other external system whereas atheists care only (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| (...) Hey Tim- I knew this would come up:-) Actually, doing good for religious people is more of a response rather than an attempt to curry favor. Christian doctrine is that we are saved by grace alone; God's love is unconditional. One cannot earn (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) I absolutely disagree. Unitarian Universalism (which is not all atheists) is generally promotes the idea that there is not an external reward for good deeds. Frank (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) That's why I coined this stunningly witty phrase: preaching to the choir, even if the preacher isn't part of the congregation. Nyuk nyuk nyuk. (...) No. All arguments by non-believers are inherently perfect and sumptuously articulated. (...) (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) And I completely agree with your disagreement. Writing always is never, ever, ever a good idea. I'll change the "always" to "almost always" and then I'll be fine ;). Tim (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Hmm, is this an insult? In American-English, is being a "lefty" worse than being one of those malevolent "liberals" that everyone bemoans? Scott A (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Uh, no, Scott, that would be a "joke" (hence, the "smiley", an accepted indication that one is simply kidding). (...) Relax. Sheesh. Ideas are ideas. Some are simply better than others. JOHN (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, Christians
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| (...) "In 1651 the Baptist Obadiah Holmes was given 30 stripes with a three-corded whip after he violated the law and took forbidden communion with another Baptist in Lynn, Massachusetts. " Yikes, I grew up in that town. -Evil Wayne (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Not always accepted: (URL) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Hey, thanks for opening up that can o' worms.... Actually, the offending emoticon in that case was the dreaded "winky"-- a much more complicated and enigmatic tool. JOHN (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) To reply to the original before I wade through all the other replies, the answer would be vaguely the same in my experience. Many atheists and those of a rather casual nature about religion contribute through standing organizations, many of (...) (19 years ago, 20-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Right back atcha - WHY does it have to eminate from a Superior Being? What is so hard to understand about the fact that Doing Good is Good, regardless of your "reward" (which, in your case, is Brownie Points To Avoid Damnation)? Good is not (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) God's love, what a joke. Send all the sinners to Hell, but love them. Riiiight. (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Good question. Additionally, it must be stated that if our notion of "good" emanates from some entity, then we have no means of objectively assessing that entity's "goodness" or "evilness." (...) This would be a good time for us all to review (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) (URL) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote: <snip> (...) Just how well read are you, Dave!?? Wonderin'... Dave K (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Heh. Not as well as I'd like, to be honest. My knowledge of modern history is embarrassingly feeble, and I have no ear for modern poetry, either. Most of the meaty entries on my "stuff I've read" list came about in college, though I still like (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Having done just that, I have a few observations: First, some of Socrate's initial arguments would have to be reworked assuming a single God. But I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem for Plato;-) Overall, this discussion simply reiterates to me (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) In the same manner as are you, Dave! :-) But I have faith in you, Dave! For I believe that you embrace the sentiment of Socrates' statement (about arguments, and Truth): "For I would give the wisdom of Daedalus, and the wealth of Tantalus, to (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists
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| (...) Man, feeling quite proud of himself, then went on to prove that black is white and got himself killed at the next zebra crossing... -HHGTTG--the next bit. You can read volumes into this, but basically, even though I know that DA was a 'devout (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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