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(...) Thanks for the link. It highlights yet another reason the world is not yet ready for a global court system. Money. Until the economic disparity in the world is reduced significantly, there is too great a possiblilty that economically (...) (21 years ago, 19-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) That hasn't bothered rich countries from joining in thus far. Richer than the US, per capita, I might add. So whose money, bribing whom, to what end? If it were for money alone, the ICC would be swamped in trials already. (...) The EU has had (...) (21 years ago, 19-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Does it really matter who or what money? The fact that it's possible, and the previously linked article demonstrates that it's already happening means that the ICC is being influenced by money. That needs fixing before the ICC will ever work. (...) (21 years ago, 19-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Don Heyse wrote: <snip> (...) A tangent-- I read many newsgroups, and someone's .siggy file caought my eye--it says "I don't believe in capital punishment anymore for when was the last time you saw a rich person get (...) (21 years ago, 19-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) 1) That's not the best reason to dislike it, 2) I know what forum that's from... :-) so what do you think of habnut's recent action? Was ryu being babyish or justified given everything? (21 years ago, 20-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Agree, but it's a good one. (...) Both parties were just childish--"It's my birthday so I wanted to post a hottie!! Why is everyone picking on me???" "Oh fine! If you don't want my hotties then someone else can do it!!!" This is where my 'put (...) (21 years ago, 20-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) I think actually that was what sohmer did, at least it seemed that way to me early this morning but I was a bit bleary eyed... (...) Or in this case just use it! Tangentially I believe that Todd has that feature under development for here. (21 years ago, 20-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Yes. And "to what end" as well, don't leave that one out. (...) And what do you propose to "fix it", if anything? (...) Two things: if money could buy charges in the ICC that easily, the court would be overwhelmed with legal actions already. (...) (21 years ago, 20-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Charge anyone caught bribing smaller countries with war crimes? (...) Sorry, I blame my crappy US lack of education for that one. I meant the Balkans. (...) Yeah, but North Africa is geographically closer to Europe than the US. And there is a (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Since it's Christmas^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hthe Holidays, I figure I should throw in this nugget for you debators. I also think this is the problem with Libertarianism (is that a word?) In Theory it sounds like a really good system, but it falls (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Good example. The system has been set up to exempt tickets from due process, in my view, because they say driving is a priv, and it's not a criminal offence but rather a civil infraction and a bunch of other stuff. That's their explanation, (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) It (in pure form) hasn't been tried in practice. (...) Why? Take as your base assumption that people are basically good, with some exceptions, and set up your system to reward goodness and punish badness. Suffering the consequences of your (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) In some states, driving has been argued to be more of a right than a privledge. I don't actually know how they work it in the EU, so maybe it's not the best example, but it was easy to lay out. (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) I think that's a bad assumption. Human beings didn't evolve to what we are by being nice to all the other furry creatures, or for that matter, other local tribes of human beings. Goodness came later, when we had time for that sort of thing. (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) True, but neither has pure Communism, pure Socialism, or pure Democracy, for that matter. I'm not convinced that we can meaningfully speculate what a "pure" incarnation of any of these systems would be like, except by undertaking selective (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Agreed. I don't think you actually can have a pure anything. But you can have systems that are more libertarian or less, and more socialist or less, and more fascist or less, etc. I claim that the more libertarian you go, the better things (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) In the case of the USA, I'd like to change that to: "I don't believe in capital punishment anymore for when was the last time you saw a rich white person get executed. It's my feeling that the death penalty is barbaric. The way it is applied (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) I agree. I once read that the nearest we have ever come to libertarianism was Pinochet's Chile… OK if you were rich I suppose. Check past posts in this very group and you'll see that libertarianism been comprehensively rubbished by everyone (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) I stress again that I find this relevant. (...) Oh bribery is a crime all right. But I doubt it can fit the definition of war crime. Care to prove me wrong? (...) True, it is close to Europe (we use the term "Mediterranean Basin" as well when (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Yes, but I don't, so I can't really add much here. Perhaps if you tell us *why* you find it so relevent I might be able to reply to that. (...) No, you got me there. We usually hire professional lawyers and politicians around here to "fix" (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Ok. I find it relevant because *you* brought it up, and have not ellaborated what you meant. It's very easy to leave vague suspicion in the air, so what I'm asking you is to be blunt and say whom, in this regard, bribes/is bribed and *to do (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Actually I think Scott brought it up and the answers you seek are in the article he provided earlier in this thread: (URL) for some reason you mysteriously deleted in this post: (URL) you so desire, you can reprint the entire BBC article here. (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) Let me get this straight, then: the article only mentions "pressure" by the USA, when trying to make sure others *EXEMPT* US citizens from prosecution in ICC. In essence, are you accusing your own country of covertly "bribing" those who grant (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Justice for all.....
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(...) (URL) Example>: Mentally ill man executed in US - "The state of Arkansas has executed a man with a severe mental illness. Charles Singleton, 44, was forcibly given anti-psychotic drugs which made him lucid enough under court guidelines to be (...) (21 years ago, 9-Jan-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | UN Gets It Right!
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(...) That is a big "(URL)". But it looks like Bush will not get his way on this: (URL) War crimes immunity bid fails>-"For the past two years, I have spoken quite strongly against the exemption and I think it would be unfortunate for one to press (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: UN Gets It Right!
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(...) Cool. I think our one-sided participation in the "world community" is messed up. We should either withdraw from the UN, strap on the six-guns, and do our thing. Or pay our dues, submit to things like world courts, and go along to get along. (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Yes. (...) Yes. (...) Yes, and ride on with our trusty sidekick Britain. (...) This is not possible and unconstitutional. (...) It is a farce, as exemplified by Sudan heading the human rights advisory council. One world order is a pipe dream (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: UN Gets it Right!
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(...) I trust you do not mean that war crimes are constitutional? ;) (...) I'm sure many others would say Bush heading it would also be a "farce". After all, it is Bush's record on human rights which stopped him getting the ICC exemption extended. (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | One world order is a pipe dream (was Re: UN Gets It Right!)
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(...) I love the imprecision of this :-) Perhaps 'it is not possible for the US to pay its dues' - and its not like the US doesn't have buckets of money, so presumably its debt to the world (personified in many ways by the UN) is overwhelmingly (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: One world order is a pipe dream (was Re: UN Gets It Right!)
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(...) Your command of the obvious is impressive. Sorry I didn't snip the "or pay our dues" part; glad you found the "imprecision" amusing. Pettifogging makes boring conversation IMO. For instance if I were to rejoin by saying that your use of "its" (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: One world order is a pipe dream (was Re: UN Gets It Right!)
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(...) You could well be right. I don't know who came up with it. I recall being a bit surprised myself the first time I heard it being applied in practice. Since then I have seen it work successfully on a factory floor, in a sales force, and in a (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: One world order is a pipe dream (was Re: UN Gets It Right!)
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(...) Seriously, only a thinker could come up with such a strategy. (...) It is also commonly applied in classroom management and even juvenile delinquency rehabilitation. It's an awsomely powerful technique that reinforces the notion that kids will (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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