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This is more of the usual right-wing idiocy. Beat down the victims of right-wing callousness. The problem is not incarcerating real criminals, the problem is the creation of crime! We are trying to legislate morality by creating whole categories of (...) (21 years ago, 27-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Sure, crime isn't the criminal's fault, it's society's! (...) You know, I've been meaning to ask you about that. So what if we have the hightest incarceration rate in the world. Should there be some magical limit? We as a society have certain (...) (21 years ago, 28-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Because it violates the freedom of people who wish to use them without affecting anyone else. Duh. (...) But they do not fall under the category of rape, murder, or stealing and as such only affect those who choose to participate. Anything (...) (21 years ago, 28-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Yeah, that's the big problem -- my naïveté! Growing prison populations challenge already cash-strapped states (URL) WASHINGTON (AP) -- America's prison population grew again in 2002 despite a declining crime rate, costing the federal (...) (21 years ago, 28-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) I said you were naive, not an idiot. But anyway, if you think such powerfully addictive drugs were available to the GP at such low prices, what do you think would occur? How many 1,000s if not 10,000s of junkies would our society have? It (...) (21 years ago, 28-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) It is obvious you have never seen people beaten down by their socio-economic cicumstances as I have. Come to West Oakland, CA and see the situation and tell me that people are absolutely choosing their lifestyles. Now who is being naive? As an (...) (21 years ago, 28-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) You defend the more Christian approach? You make me laugh. Your idea is to have the government try and solve the problem, wasting billions of $$$ on beaucracy. How many trillions of dollars have we spent in the past 40 years on welfare (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Nobody mentioned welfare except for you, John. I emphasized decent education and trade programs. I don't see that you rebutted anything else substantive that I have previously stated either. You set up a straw man and want me to defend it? Not (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) I feel obliged to add that we probably haven't spent "trillions" of dollars on welfare unless of course we include the ongoing billions handed to big corporations, and that doesn't really qualify as 'trying to wipe out poverty.' Further, even (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Sure, if they would use it without affecting anyone else, but they won't. They will use and drive cars and barges and operate machinery, and kill 1,000s as drunks do today. What about the freedoms of the rest of us? (...) What I am saying is (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) First I should state that I belive we should make driving while intoxicated a capital offense. (meaning that it can be punishable by execution once the court system is overhauled, until them life imprisonment) Second why do you assume that (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Um, okay, that's "hard":-) But yes, it is only that kind of "no tolerance" policy that is going to change public behavior. That said, I think it would definitely lead to an increase in the prison population (addressing Richard's qualm), at (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) I think most people don't do drugs because they don't want to risk their lives/health/saftey, not because it is too expensive. Personally I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. The bottom line is that using drugs does not fall under the category (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Can a parallel be drawn with alcohol in the "dry" twenties? Why? (or why not) Pedro (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) The problem with drug usage is not the usage "per se", it's what addicts do once they waste all their money. Tipically, the pattern for drug usage is: you have a job and do drugs, then you lose your job (and income) due to the addiction, then (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) So instead of legalizing something relatively benign like pharmaceutical grade cocaine or heroin, you have de facto readily available garbage like crack. Crack is cheap, powerfully addictive, and TRULY ruins people's lives quite quickly. What (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) I'm not sure I follow you. Would people prefer to use these pharmaceutical drugs, or would they opt for the more potent and insidious drugs like crack and ecstasy? (...) lol I hope you are being facetious, but I'd bet you're not! :-) (...) It (...) (21 years ago, 30-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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Mandatory life sentences create very dangerous, panicked offenders. If you were DUI and killed someone, and you KNEW that you were guaranteed a life sentence, what exactly do you lose in trying to run, possibly killing more people (think a DUI (...) (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) This is an incredibly important consideration that the pro-Death Penalty and lock-em-up-and-throw...e-key-away people tend to totally ignore. There are a few things that do justify indefinite incarceration, but very few in my mind, for just (...) (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Brown Girl in the Ring? Anyway, William Burroughs wrote an essay on this very idea in the late 70s or early 80s -- it was carried in Heavy Metal magazine. It loosely relates to his novel as screenplay, "Blade Runner." -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Nope, I was thinking of another one. It's probably been done several times. Frank (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) One reference that would seem to fit your Libertarian philosophy is Michael G. Coney's "The Jaws That Bite, The Claws that Catch." But I don't think that's the one you're referring to. Dave! (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz wrote: <snip> (...) I say it's LEXX :) (21 years ago, 5-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Gee, lot's of similar references here I guess. I'm thinking of Larry Niven's "The Patchwork Man" (at least I think that's the short story I'm thinking of - Niven actually keeps refering to organ banks). Frank (21 years ago, 5-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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