 | | Re: Art! or Not Art!
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(...) Not everyone agrees with you on that, and the proportions that do or don't will change dramatically from culture to culture. (...) else (...) A reasonable desire, but again, "child pornography" means different things to different people. For (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) I disagree with the sentiment that suffering creates better art, or that worthy art can only be created by those willing to suffer a bit for it. Are some of the amazing LEGO creations and sculptures on LUGNET not examples of worthy art created (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) I am not for the leftist view of government taxing us to death for everyone's ability to have health care, education, etc. I work two jobs, I am starting my own business, and I think the left's view of these being rights is both absurd and (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Matthew jumps in (was Re: Goodness of Man?, etc.)
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<3874A8CA.59FCB9A3@voyager.net> <slrn879jb5.6vn.matt...ia.bu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Fair enough. I'll try to root out the cogent thread but if you want to dig, use "life affirming" as (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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<3874CFB7.C78E8E40@voyager.net> <slrn879jtn.95s.matt...ia.bu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I'm not sure. I haven't carried out an exhaustive analysis of the rights involved. I would tend to (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) From a rights basis (the utilitarian basis is clear) does it follow that the inventor has the right to prevent other people from coming up with the exact same idea on their own? (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) OK, go ahead and invent away. I don't invent for free. (...) So let me see here, what you're proposing is that I go out and invent something, someone else steals my idea, gets it to market first, and makes a pile from the users, and I don't (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) You're against health care, housing, and education? My goodness, in that case I'm certainly proud to be a leftist. (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) How does that help? Who decides what's bad? Aren't you still in the mode of not having an objective standard? Now, this whole thing may be futile, I tend to come down on the side of "there isn't an easy way to define what art is, it is based (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Matthew jumps in (was Re: Goodness of Man?, etc.)
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(...) I don't understand the basis for the assertion that property rights are the basis for all other rights. Where do property rights come from? What makes that a privledged right above any other I can imagine? Arguments for this I've seen that I (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) No, in other words, you're not moving this discussion forward because you're not doing what you committed to do, accept my premise and try to refute this particular point using it. We have a fundamental disagreement about rights. I happen to (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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Matt, (...) Yes, but without the Declaration, we would have no Constitution, or Bill of Rights. Clearly the intent of the Founding Fathers is here.. but this isn't what I was talking about. (...) I think that the Constitution outlined the concept of (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Yes. And I proceeded to tersly show that even if you buy ends justify the means you still fail, because you get bad ends. all government programs produce bad results is my utilitarian thesis. So I have him both ways. (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) Just for the record, I fully agree. Jasper (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) Because it is _bad_ art. Not because it's not art. Jasper (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) In other words, "neener neener, I can't hear you?" Whatever. Jasper (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) No. (...) I'm not saying you can't judge it. I'm saying you can't say it isn't art, but that doesn't at all preclude you from saying it's _bad_ art. (...) The definition doesn't exist, short of an inclusive data base. Jasper (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) "utilitarian" == "ends justify the means", no? Jasper (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) You discredit yourself completely in the first sentence. Nice going. "coined by the founding fathers" == "god-given". Whatever. (...) So now it's a bad idea to strive for utopia? Jasper (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) They don't get incented. (...) Noone. Except possibly, oh, I don't know, how about those people who could actually benefit from the invention? You know, just like roads should be financed by the users. And please don't come shouting about how (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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