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(...) We're not? Are you sure about that? I'm not. (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Did you even read my post? The gun owners were the first group of Jews rounded up for precisely that reason. (...) Words on paper (laws) protect me less than the police do. Police do not stop crime over 99 percent of the time. They simply (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Now come on. Pay attention. (URL) (...) Please get your facts straight. In tin-pot dictator type countries only the government and police have guns. That is why they can oppress and enslave their people. (...) Exactly we have guns too. (...) (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) I was looking for a spot to jump in to this debate too, and I don't know if this is it, but what the heck I will butt in anyway. I know and understand the Jeffersonian arguement that citizens need to be armed against an oppressive government, (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) No, by definition a criminal is exactly that. However, see the hammer argument, and the fact that the majority of murders are committed by people who KNOW each other. And Alcohol is often a factor...it's harder to kill someone with a set of (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Again with the "Jeffersonian" speak. I would point out that Jefferson livd 200+ years ago and some of the ideas from that time may not be valid today. Again (and again and again) it is your national forces that's protecting your 'freedom and (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Protection through deterrence. Ask any criminal whom they would rather robb-- an armed person or an unarmed person. Of course it's true that guns can be lethal-- that is precisely why they are effective deterrents. (...) You are assuming that (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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Okay, fine -- if your point is that the purpose of a gun is to kill or destroy a thing, then that's basically an undisputed fact. That it is the only utility of the gun is a separate matter. I still think that the gun's power for destruction is the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Peace without freedom is oppression and/or slavery for "the good of society." (...) Except that most of the Black Market guns come from overseas smuggling, not domestic theft. It is cheaper, easier, and safer on a large scale. -Mike Petrucelli (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You're right, I should know to phrase things better. All of the data I have seen everywhere (save the occasional pro-gun loony website that shows a positive benefit to greater availability of guns) shows there is no correlation between the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Well, besides being logical and such, there would be less deaths by hammers if there were less hammers. Just as, as John points out, there would be less deaths by cars if there were less cars. Do I need a study to show me the infallible logic (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Maybe I just haven't seen the right studies or something, but you have no real proof or data to support that statement, do you? It's just fuzzy anti-gun speak that doesn't deal with actual issues but with imagined public safety protections. I (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Lets look at homicides due to guns in each situation, shall we? Because you saw something somewhere and the 'whole arguement is completely invalid'? Mike, you're better than that. Dave K (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Reading comprehension 101--the purpose of a car is not to cause any harm. The purpose of a gun is. If you want to weigh in on *accidental* deaths of automobiles, then we're off on a differnt topic. Shooting someone with a gun is not an (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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This is a kind of digression, I think...this thread seems to be going all over the place. =) (...) Which provides support for the idea of socialized medicine, because if the health services needed to recover from an injury are free they cannot be (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) You ask *any* politician--"Hey Mr. 'We voted you in', do you worry that when you make bad decisions in office you will probably get shot *because of* your bad decisions?" I think Mr Politician is more worried about his walking around in (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) You might want to double check that number, because it would mean that the murder rate increased since the UK imposed tight gun control laws. Not exactly supportive of your argument. Basiclly all of the data I have seen shows there is no (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Yes, autos do cause far more deaths than guns. However, they seem to have far more use too. (...) "just mind your own business". Please do so...and stop insiuating that you can stop something that you are unlikely to ever be a part of. (armed (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Do you honestly beleive that a criminal is using a registered gun in the first place? By the way, just a little history for you: Registered gun oweners were the first group of Jews rounded up by the Nazis. By the time they realized what was (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Yes. Protection. Why do you give an example of an unintended use of a gun? By that reasoning we should ban driving due to all of the auto related fatalities (far more BTW than deaths by handguns...) (...) By the same token, gun manufacturers (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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