 | | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
Really, you are the biggest bore. I have never suggested conspiracy -- ever! I have suggested favors in exchange for favors, which you seem ready to admit as a fact of political life. So wonderful, we agree. I hope you don't mind my pointing out who (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) So doesn't that make your own distinction between "Muslim" and "Arab" a bit shakier? You claimed to be referring to Muslims, and that Arab was a race-related term. (...) (and exactly what do you propose to do about it???) Don't you think it's (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) What you are asking for is akin to me asking you to prove that God doesn't exist. The facts that you are providing are not causal, but more like coincidental, and certainly not evidence of conspiratorial. Bechtel got some contracts. Fine. And (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) To answer your question above, I was referring, as I believe the author of the article was as well, to Arab immigration and their direct descendants post WWII. When I said "dominated", I meant in the context of numbers. The Muslim population (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) About 20% strong. The number comes from the percentage Mr. Le Pen had in the last presidential election. (...) (To John: a significant number of Muslims has lived in Europe for centuries, notably in the Balkans. They are not Arabs, and they (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Perhaps, but you have yet to counter many of my claims with anything like a fact or anything like authority. Like I said, I need more than lame right-wing excuses or justifications out of some moldy old book. Show me with the use of facts how (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) You seem to be saying we can't judge other cultures. Can we judge people? Can we judge groups of people? How many people have to follow the same idea before we can't judge it? I would point out that many wrongdoers in the world believe that (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes: I promised in a earlier post I wouldn't call you names again, so I won't tell you what I think of you, but yes, by all mean, shut up. You attacks against some cultures here are most unwelcome. Terry (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Thanks Richard! You just stole me my title! ;-) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Most like USA's death penalty. Who are we to decide what is right or wrong? This is called a cultural clash. In the Muslim culture, Adultery may be one of the worst thing a person can do in his/her life. If so, it would be logical for this (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) What if the belief system itself is flawed? As I understand it, to be a good muslim, one has to follow sharia (religious law). Sharia is used as civil law in many countries and in many others, it's being pushed as something that SHOULD be used (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) I'm seeing that the term "Enlightenment" was probably too loaded a word for the idea I wished to convey. What I meant by it was an intellectual passing into the 20th Century. By most accounts I have read, it is generally agreed that Islam is (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Well, say we compared it to the percentage of extremist Christians for example. I don't know what that number is, but judging from reported Christian terrorist attacks I'd say that it is pretty low. Even if the percentage of extremist Muslims (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) France has long had a difficult relationship with Arab countries due to its colonialism in North Africa (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia come to mind). That reverse migration has happened only seems appropriate: the link worked both ways. There has (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) It might be useful to have a clear, legitimate tally of extremists relative to the whole sample population. We can't use the US media or Arab-state-run media, since both of these sources are tainted. There are over a billion Muslims in the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Thank you. But really, I haven't a problem with Islam per se. There are many peaceful Muslims. What I *do* have a problem with are extremist Muslims who tend to comprise a shockingly high percentage of the Muslim population, and the seemingly (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) All right. Why don't we use the term "bigot" then? (...) If you're going to use the term "enlightenment" as litmus test to determine whether a group is worthy of respect, then you need to throw out groups that work to foster pseudoscience in (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Uh, I thought that they were silently disagreeing with me. But so what if they do? You don't seem to care about what others think of your views. Are you suggesting that I keep quiet because the majority happen to think differently than I do? (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Okay, let's put away the racist card already. Islam is a *religion*. Followers of Islam are *Muslims*. "Arab" is a race term, not "Muslim", okay? (...) Sorry I wasn't clear in my meaning: "Enlightenment" A philosophical movement of the 18th (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
| |
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
|
|
(...) Pot, kettle. You are probably the most uncivil individual in this NG. JOHN (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
