 | | Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
Dr. Mark Changizi claims that LEGO sets have reached a point where most of the pieces no longer fit other pieces. Sound crazy? Wait - there's math... (URL) I've actually had an open conversation with Dr. Changizi about this article and the original (...) (13 years ago, 26-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) He says "LEGOs" which makes his work suspect right there. :) Not very rigorous. The paper is from 2001... the piece palette has improved somewhat since then. But generally I'm not sure he's drawing valid inferences/conclusions. LEGO elements (...) (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Have you accounted for the Galidor factor? (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Heh. (URL) JOHN (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) He would argue that the increase in the number of new types of pieces is actually an indication that the LEGO system is getting less flexible. But as you say, the system is designed so that every piece connects to at least one other piece (...) (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Is that a corollary to the Jack Stone Effect? (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Or the (URL) Principle? JOHN (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Two things come immediately to mind. The first is that it's really amusing that he's saying that now that there are a much wider variety of parts, it's harder to build something with them. I've got over 40 cars in my collection now that could (...) (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I think he's probably correct, from a certain perspective. Essentially, LEGO has become a more diverse toy. LEGO from the 60's and early 70's was a VERY free-form toy. There weren't many connection types, so all the pieces essentially worked (...) (13 years ago, 27-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Ha! I somehow missed that in the past. Love it! -Hendo (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I spend too much time on Facebook. I very much want to click "Like" to both David Laswell's and Dave Eaton's comments here. As for the argument Dr. Changizi presents, I'm too distracted by the opening of the article, which to any experienced (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Okay, yeah, from that specific perspective, I can see that he might have a point. A given set's part assortment has indeed become more specialized, and especially for some of the smaller ones it might be much more difficult to build a (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Yes, the debate is the same one that has been going on forever, but when you compare his research with his opening claim that "The sets kids receive as gifts today are replete with made-to-order piece types special to each set, useful in one (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Good point, but there have always been LEGO sets sold as specific models with instructions for building them. And sets were not marketed directly to children in the 60s and 70s, they were marketed to their parents, and parents (at least my (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) He's got a (half baked) hypothesis. He wrote a paper 10 years ago and is still milking it. Don't confuse him with data. OK, that was harsh, but that's what I come away with, without detracting from the agreement points we DID find here. Like (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I think he's doing the same thing that virtually everyone does when they see modern LEGO-- trying to figure out why they don't like it as much. Everyone that grew up with LEGO seems to go through that same stage of curmudgeon-ity, where they (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote: (snip good analysis) For more musings on the build/rebuild vs. build/play dichotomy see (URL) second one really reinforces what Dave's talking about, in that if you plan to NEVER take something apart but just (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I think you're spot-on. He went fishing for empirical support for his intuition and really had to stretch to make it seem to fit. I think one contributing factor is that people who have not maintained familiarity with LEGO pieces over the (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) From what I've heard from LEGO, they might occasionally do that with a particular product line, but each one is evaluated independently. So, whether or not Ninjago will have alternate models is a totally separate discussion from whether or not (...) (13 years ago, 28-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) In terms of using specific elements as incentive to buy more sets, it certainly is a trend. They finally picked up on a complaint that the Star Wars fans have been voicing for ten years, which is that we wanted a wider variety of minifigs. Now (...) (13 years ago, 29-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) Me too. I love the little details like the frowny face next to the age range, and that the set number is the Number of the Beast. (13 years ago, 29-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I've been sort of pondering this, and I've concluded that the researcher's conclusion makes more sense if we use as a sample 100 random elements chosen from the "classic" LEGO era vs 100 random elements from the newer Ninjago era. Whatever the (...) (13 years ago, 29-Feb-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I think it's the higher ratio of piece types to set size that leads him to conclude the sets are not as useful for free-form building as they once were. The argument he makes is that if you have a set of 100 unique pieces, it has less (...) (13 years ago, 1-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
--snip-- (...) no. Nowhere near 100%. There's a very high fraction of LEGO fans outside North America. (13 years ago, 12-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) A fair point, I suppose, though I maintain that since I was referring to "non AFOLs," I'm not sure that it's relevant. (13 years ago, 12-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) If the author is worried about maximum variation with minimal parts... go play with Silly-Putty. LEGO is not, at the heart, about combinatorics, it's about creations. Perhaps he should do more building and less math. Or, visit a convention (...) (13 years ago, 12-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) That * was actually an *ahem* but FTX ate the rest. Sounds harsher without it. Ignore the word 'fans'. Very few non-AFOLs here or in Europe would call them LEGOs. Ergo not even close to 100%. (13 years ago, 12-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) And here I was wondering how you did that nifty bullet point. How about this: Of the English-speaking population that might reasonably be anticipated to pluralize a word by adding an S on the end of it, nearly 100% of non-AFOLs use the term (...) (13 years ago, 12-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
--snip-- (...) Oh I'm not taking it seriously at all ;) But I will fight for the linguistic differences between us and them (defined as the situation calls for). I have never heard, outside of TV and my recent trip to the US, the bricks referred to (...) (13 years ago, 13-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
--snip-- (...) "Mum! They have LEGO!" "Don't you have enough LEGO already?" "All my LEGO is in the cupboard." Fixed! (13 years ago, 13-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) LOL. If that poor kid's collection can fit in the cupboard, then he obviously doesn't have enough. (13 years ago, 13-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I suppose that I can accept that as a fitting compromise. Wow. This might be the first time that we agreed on something. (13 years ago, 13-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I remember a time when my collection fit into a cardboard box k, i was still single digits at the time Dave (13 years ago, 13-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
| |
| | Re: Mathematical proof that you can't build anything with LEGO bricks
|
|
(...) I'm pretty sure we've agreed many times in the past where there was a common enemy. But it's much more fun arguing so those are what are remembered ;) (13 years ago, 13-Mar-12, to lugnet.general, FTX)
|
