Subject:
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Re: Contributer Agreement Version 3
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw
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Date:
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Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:03:29 GMT
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Viewed:
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973 times
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In lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, Wayne Gramlich wrote:
> In lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, Alfred Speredelozzi wrote:
> > In lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, Wayne Gramlich wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > Indeed, I'll go one step further, the CA is totally unenforcable.
> > > Unless, LDraw.Org requires that the part copyrights be
> > > transferred to LDraw.Org, it is completely illegal for LDraw.Org
> > > to change the license to the parts without getting permission
> > > from each part owner. Only the copyright holder can change
> > > the license.
> >
> > Two things here are wrong:
> >
> > 1) copyrights can be transferred.
> > they can be assigned or liscenced, but the original copyright holder is always
> > the copyright holder.
>
> Your statement is false. In the United States, copyrights are a form of
> intellectual property that can be bought and sold like any other
> form of property. In the United States, once the copyright has been
> transferred, the original author has no rights to the work unless they
> new owner grants them rights via a license. In Europe, they have the
> concept of authorship rights that they believe the author retains
> irrespective of who owns the copyright.
No, actually, you are completly wrong. You cannot buy a "copyright." This is
something that is created when a piece of intellectual property is created. The
only exception to this is a work for hire, which you could think of as buying a
copyright in that you are paying an author, but you retain the copyright.
They also cannot be sold like any other form of property. Courts have
consistenly held that intellectual proprty rights are not REAL property and so
do not have the same kind of things happen to them. For instance, you cannot
tresspass on a copyright, which is something you can do to REAL property.
Now, people can and do enter into contracts where they buy and sell different
"rights" concerning the intellectual property. The right to distribute and the
right to make copies are common things in these contracts. (Right to make
copies is pretty similar to "copyright", I know, but they are really not the
same since "copyright" means the rights conferred under the law, while "right to
make copies" is driven by the contractual agreement between the parties.) Some
contracts are exclusive, in which case the owner essentially gives up all thier
rights in the IP.
However, it is not true that once you sell a "right" in a copyright, that you
always give up all ownership. For instance, many newspaper column authors had
contractually given up the rights to printed copies of thier works to
newspapers. The newspapers were free to make any and all copies that they
wanted, and distibute the printed copies them as they saw fit. However, some
newspapers were placing these articles online. The authors sued the newspapers
saying thier copyrights were violated, and they won. Now this is an
oversimplifaction of the case, but the important thing to learn from it is that
the courts did not spend a lot of time examining the law as much as the spent
examining the language of the contracts between the authors and the newspapers.
That is what governs IP law--contracts. That is why this contract (CA)
discussion is important.
In Europe, they do have a provisions of law that I think is called the "natural
right" of an artist. This mostly means that thier work cannot be destroyed.
For instance, I may own the right to copy to all the Picasso paintings (lets say
Picasso jr, and imagine he is currently alive). Picasso jr can prevent me from
destoying his work, even though I own both the work and the right to copy.
It is also true that people commonly refer to buying and selling copyrights, but
what they are talkign about are contractual arrangements, not the law itself.
> > when people sign away thier copyrights, they are
> > typically signing a liscence (many are exclusive). LDraws is a non-exclusive
> > liscence, but they still have all rights as the liscence defines. The CA
> > defines these rights, including the right to redistribute
> >
> > 2) only the copyright holder can change a liscence
> > not true. depends on what the liscence says. If the liscence gives me the
> > right to sell it to someone else, that would be a change. If the liscence
> > agrees to a variable royalty rate (Depending on market conditions and adjusted
> > for inflation) than that would be a change. If the change and how it is to
> > happen are well defined in the agreement, then it is possible.
>
> The Creative Commons Attribution License (CCAL) is incompatible with
> the CA. The CCAL disallows sub-licensing, which is what the CA is attempting
> to do. Sorry.
You should be sorry, because your wrong. The CA is the contract between the
author and Ldraw, so whether it is compatible with the CCAL is irrelavant. The
CCAL is _not_ the contract between the author and Ldraw, it is the contract
between Ldraw and everyone who uses the library.
You really need to buy some books on IP law and/or contract law before you start
throwing away the hard work that the Ldraw commitee has done.
-Alfred
> [snip]
>
> -Wayne
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Contributer Agreement Version 3
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| (...) [snip] According to the following document published by the US Copyright Office: (URL) The relevant parts are: Any or all of the copyright owner's exclusive rights or any subdivision of those rights may be transferred, but the transfer of (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Contributer Agreement Version 3
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| (...) [snip] (...) Your statement is false. In the United States, copyrights are a form of intellectual property that can be bought and sold like any other form of property. In the United States, once the copyright has been transferred, the original (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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