Subject:
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Re: for the eyes of Suz (Was Re: For the Eyes of Alfred Speredelozzi
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sun, 23 Dec 2001 03:21:29 GMT
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Viewed:
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310 times
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In lugnet.admin.general, Tim Courtney writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> > Calling for a member to be banned is a very serious matter. At least it
> > *ought* to be considered very serious.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > Suz has said precisely one thing... she doesn't want to hear about it. If
> > LUGNET were a government, that wouldn't fly. Citizens have the right to
> > expect governments to act on accusations of wrongdoing. Even if that act is
> > to dismiss the charges, it's still a formal closure.
> >
> > LUGNET of course is *not* a government. Nor is it a corporation with
> > shareholders and a board. We have no rights to due process and no
> > expectation of any outcome in particular. Suz rules by fiat (taking opinion
> > into account, of course) and that has in fact worked quite well, usually.
>
> After waiting a couple days to see if this post would get a reply, I'm
> writing to voice my agreement with Larry and my disagreement with how issues
> like this are handled on LUGNET.
>
> In essence, by Suz stating that she doesn't want to hear about it, she's
> damaging the community by not being there to do the proper pruning when its
> needed. This carelessness concerns me, really.
>
> I understand LUGNET is not a democracy, its not a government, and we have
> little to no say on what gets enforced here and what doesn't. I understand
> LUGNET (in a legal sense) is the sole property of Todd and Suz as well.
>
> Despite that, I'd like to bring to the table another idea. I think LUGNET
> is in a sense 'owned' by the contributors who enhabit it. Before people
> react -- I don't mean we 'own' LUGNET legally, I don't mean we 'own' it and
> have the capability to dictate what the admins do. But LUGNET has become
> much more than a set of programs and databases on a server that Todd and Suz
> created, and that Todd and Suz pay the bill for (with the help of the
> members). Its a living, breathing community - with a personality, with many
> personalities even.
>
> The admins aren't the only people who have put hours of sweat and tears into
> the community. Yep, the community is greater than LUGNET itself, but LUGNET
> is a central gathering point for the core of the community, for the most
> serious (fanatical?) of us all, and given the numbers Todd's told me about
> server stats, we have a much higher number of lurkers than posters.
>
> What I'm trying to say is - if the admins care about the people that have
> inhabited this server of theirs (and if they want them to stay), it would be
> a Good Thing if they would put a little more effort into addressing the
> serious concerns that people bring up.
>
> We owe T&S a lot of gratitude for creating LUGNET in the first place, but
> conversely, it would be nice if they showed their gratitude for us
> enhabiting it and making it what it is by taking care of issues when they
> arise. Not petty squabbles, but serious issues - like calls for banishment.
>
> When I saw the post by Suz 'Look: I don't care what your opinions are and
> I'm not going to baby-sit. So just knock it off, and/or go away. You all
> know who you are.' it made me sick. I refrained from commenting then
> because of the tension of the debate and all, but now that the tension has
> mostly subsided, I think its OK to say that now.
>
> I think that if the admins keep acting like this, the people who really do
> care will gradually drop off. The shell of LUGNET that remains - the
> discussion part of it at least, will be reminiscent of the silly web-based
> forums where juvinile immaturity rule. I've experienced those places, and
> generally the people there don't care.
>
> Its because of attitudes like this I don't see LUGNET as the center of the
> LEGO universe anymore (the fan universe, at least). I used to be a very
> LUGNET-centric thinker: 'oh, that's cool but you should put it on LUGNET'
> type thing. I don't think that way anymore.
>
> I understand a lot of changes have taken place this year with Todd and Suz,
> and if they're under a lot of stress from elsewhere I understand the
> attitudes and actions. At the same time, I think LUGNET needs somebody, be
> it either of them or someone entirely different, to address these issues
> when they arise and deal with them.
>
> I'm not trying to bash LUGNET or to bash Todd and Suz, just trying to
> express my concern. I'm one of the ones who has been here since the
> beginning, I remember the feelings of joy when I first read the LUGNET plan,
> settling into a new environment that was fresh and new and without the
> squabbles and auction spam of RTL, and thinking that LUGNET could be nothing
> but a wonderful place.
>
> My naive, idealized view has faded now. LUGNET is still a cool place, but
> its not as cool as it could be. I've watched the community climate mature
> here, and I've watched others' attitudes change as well.
>
> This used to be a great place to hang out and chat. Some of that still
> exists, but its not the same as it was. Now, I use LUGNET to keep in
> contact with a few friends, to catch the news, and to post my announcements.
> I'm not giddy about it like I used to be, and I don't think that everything
> in the LEGO universe should migrate to LUGNET anymore.
>
> I hope people don't take my post the wrong way. I've agonized over this
> thing for about an hour now, trying to figure out the right words to say. I
> don't mean to hurt feelings, I don't mean to stop others from enjoying
> LUGNET. I just want to say what's on my mind and offer my honest thoughts
> about how I've seen the administration act towards caring for the community.
>
> -Tim
Hi all,
I am just another outside member of the community, contributing with
naive reflections and ignorant posts. I like to write and usually regret my
posts when they are ignored.
In one respect though, I feel well versed, and that respect is in
building community. Discord is expected. Hurt feelings are common. Personal
growth is realized. When building community we see all of the community's
strengths and weaknesses. We have individual experiences that can draw
tighter bonds or alienate us further from the community.
Being an outsider, a truly appreciative outsider, I respect and gladly
acknowledge the work of the stakeholders who have envisioned and created
LUGNET. I also understand thoughtful and abrasive personalities will
participate in the community. This is all part of the human condition. We
all grow from our experience and we all share the common bond of a whimsical
toy.
Play well,
Bert
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