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The Lego group really ought to have done more with this theme. Frankly, I love
the Wild West stuff. Everything was good about this theme; the buildings and
Indian camps looked really cool, there were those awesome six-shooters and
rifles, other neat stuff (like the safes, dynamite, and dollar bills), and
every
one of the fourteen minifig guys (including Indian warriors) and Indian woman
looked cool; there wasn't a Timmy (my term for a black sheep) in the bunch : ).
What would be kinda interesting for the future, in my opinion, would be to have
some set-up that incorporated "white" women (notice that all the "white"
western
minifigs are male), like a gunslingin' cowgirl, a schoolteacher-type femme, or
a
showgirl/dancer type (like the women that performed in saloons, with the
feathers in their hair and kinda skimpy outfits : ). To add to males, I'd
like
to see some gold miner/panner guys, a bartender (hint, hint, SALOON!), a few
more rowdy cowboys (how 'bout some lassos, Lego?), some 1800's businessmen, a
doctor, a blacksmith, and an engineer (it'd be nice to see a steam locomotive
set, preferably with two or all three of the old bandits included, or maybe
even
a few new bandits). A few more different Indian dudes and camps for them would
definitely be cool. As a new subtheme, there could be some Mexican-American
dudes (they were part of the American West too) with sombreros and ponchos and
stuff. Lego could create some interesting new sets with a theme like this
(adobe buildings, cacti, and vultures would be fair game). Does anyone have
any
interesting suggestions concerning future possibilites for Wild West, if Lego
resurrects this theme?
Mike
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In lugnet.western, Mike Kane writes:
> The Lego group really ought to have done more with this theme.
Tru. A couple of months ago i posted a simillar mess. It's a shame the wild-
west theme has ended so soon. It could have become a nice -city-theme too with
a trainstation, saloon, buildings and ofcourse -trains....
Because TLG has cancelled this theme (so far.... ;) ) I started to create my
own western city...from now on i'm gonna buy every fort-legoredo-set i find...
A soon as i get a digicam I will post some of my pictures on the net...like my
railway-station, saloon, blacksmith, doctor, armoryshop, large generalstore,
barber, furniturefactory and some smaller thingies...
I really think all city-lovers are gonna like it!!!!!!
If u'r interrested or if u have some nice western-city improvements i havent
mentioned so far write me back!
Dan.
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I agree ... I built my own western creations too...
Check out my website for Western creations of:
Saloon (with upstairs bordello)
Barber shop
Blacksmith
Cabin
Cemetery
Stagecoach
Prisoner wagon
Gold miner
... Allan
My LEGO creations site "Allanton NZ" is at
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~allanj/
daniel van berkel wrote in message ...
> Because TLG has cancelled this theme (so far.... ;) ) I started to create my
> own western city...from now on i'm gonna buy every fort-legoredo-set i find...
> A soon as i get a digicam I will post some of my pictures on the net...like my
> railway-station, saloon, blacksmith, doctor, armoryshop, large generalstore,
> barber, furniturefactory and some smaller thingies...
> I really think all city-lovers are gonna like it!!!!!!
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In lugnet.western, Allan J. Smith writes:
> I agree ... I built my own western creations too...
>
> Check out my website for Western creations of:
>
> Saloon (with upstairs bordello)
> Barber shop
> Blacksmith
> Cabin
> Cemetery
> Stagecoach
> Prisoner wagon
> Gold miner
>
> ... Allan
>
> My LEGO creations site "Allanton NZ" is at
> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~allanj/
For anyone who hasn't checked out Allan's website, I definitely recomend
that you do. It's great. I checked out a bunch of messages on this thread
and its amazing how whiney and lazy some of the messages sound. A lot of
people are asking for TLC to package sets that can easily be built with parts
from existing ones. Allan's site demonstrates this quite adequately. Mike Kane
had originally asked for a bartender, an 1800's business man, and a showgirl
just to name a few. Allan's got examples of these. I don't know if he got
any of his parts from any paradisa sets, but you'd definitely find a black-
vested and bow-tied waiter/bartender torso in a couple of sets within that
theme. Also, the forrestmen and pirates have a torso in a couple of sets that
is essentially a busty woman's cleavage stuffed inside a bustier. I mean,
yeah, some adobe architecture would be great, but now that there's tan pieces
throughout the Star Wars theme to add to the existing log-paneling from the
western sets, get busy and build your own! Oh yeah, I thoroughly support the
request that TLC manufacture some cacti (not cactuses! man, go read a book),
but I don't think that it would demand re-opening a theme. It'd be fine if
they were just packaged in a service set of assorted fauna.
that's my $.02 for now,
tell me to fall off a bridge if you feel like doing so
Damien
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> I checked out a bunch of messages on this thread
> and its amazing how whiney and lazy some of the messages sound. A lot of
> people are asking for TLC to package sets that can easily be built with parts
> from existing ones.
Well Damien, I'm not sure where you are reading whiney and lazy posts. All I
can recall reading is posts of what people would like to see out of this
theme. I agree that you can build many of the things mentioned in this thread
from existing pieces, but I also think there is many things that you can not
make look right with exsisting pieces. Maybe you should also think that
people are coming here to express ideas just like every other thread of
messages out there. Cut us a little slack!
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> Well Damien, I'm not sure where you are reading whiney and lazy posts. All I
> can recall reading is posts of what people would like to see out of this
> theme. I agree that you can build many of the things mentioned in this thread
> from existing pieces, but I also think there is many things that you can not
> make look right with exsisting pieces. Maybe you should also think that
> people are coming here to express ideas just like every other thread of
> messages out there. Cut us a little slack!
> David
I didn't say any of the ideas were bad. I think most of 'em are pretty
cool, but that us Lego users don't need to depend so much on the imagination
of the Lego designers. A lot of people are mentioning that they'd like to see
a wild west train set. Why? Why not obtain a 3225 or a 7722 and combine
those into a western theme. I'm sure that even 4561 could be turned into a
nice retro-looking train (though with the windows from that set the
independent modeler might want to build their train cars 8 studs wide). Alas,
i understand that such efforts may become costly, so to be supportive of my
fellow Lego fans, I'll say that if there were any efforts organized by lugnet
users to officially request a western-themed train set from TLC that I'd sign
on with their campaign. This is something that I think more lugnet user
groups should band together and do. We should be weilding our power as
consumers with the TLC. If enough people get together and decide upon what
they really want as Lego fans, then wouldn't TLC have to respond in some
fashion?
Y'all get as much slack as the next 'cos I'll be making more noise.
---Damien
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Well at least I think that you answered your own question. Money! Most
people can't afford to buy old lego train sets that for the most part you will
have to get off ebay. Lego is an expensive hobby enough without buying old
discontinued sets that the adverage lego user does not have. Therefore it is
much easier if new sets were made. Like wise I can't just run out and get
three fort legoredo's just for the wall pieces in order to make more buildings.
I am sorry If I misunderstood you earlier, but when I read your previous post
you seemed to slam all of the ideas that people have had on this thread. I
don't see how this thread has differed from any ideas from any other groups
such as adventurers, pirate, star wars, and castle for that matter. Which
brings me back to my point. The adverage collector can build a saloon, hotel,
and etc., but it is not within our collection to build, like you mentioned, a
train.
David
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Todd Lehman e-mailed me earlier on today and guided me towards Suzanne
Rich's website www.baseplate.com. It's an awesome sight in general, but she
may be able to aid some of you western enthusiasts specifically if you check
out the www.baseplates.com/kits section. Suzanne offers a few custom sets 2
of which are "women of the west" (which includes 3 minifig femme-fatales) and
her "saloon bartender" (which comes complete with a bar, and a keg of ale).
As far as S.H.E.I.L.D. agent David Little's latest response to my comments,
I'll say that I think that all Lego enthusiasts should depend more on their
own imaginations than on the imaginations of the paid lego set designers.
This goes for all of the LUGNET user newsgroups. We should all be trying to
build out our ideas first, refine them with feedback and support from other
Lego fans (and this means supporting the creative ventures of other lego
enthusiasts by providing used sets at affordable prices as well as for trade),
and when we start seeing enough of the existing users working on the same
idea, organize and approach TLC to support their consumers by packaging sets
that compliment these ideas. For instance, in Lugnet.Starwars, everybody
wants Stormtroopers. The execs at TLC and lucasfilm that decided to release
scout troopers first must've decided to do so after passing the moonshine jug
around. But I've yet to see any attempts at organizing Lego fans around
requesting an earlier than planned release of Stormtroopers. On recent Lugnet
posting led me to an e-bay auction of some spacemen sets from the late 70's
that were nothing more than 2 space minifigs in cardboard-backed action-figure
style packaging. I like boxes more myself, but couldn't lego offer a
stormtrooper 2 pack? I'm sure they could, but we as lego fans need to start
campaigning to get lego to put these things on the shelf or in the S@H
catalogue. Untill we organize and decide what we really want and need from
the company, the opinions of lego enthusiasts will play a minor role in
deciding what sets get released in the future. Like I said, I'd definitely
support any movement to get lego to release a western-themed trainset (even
stormtroopers for that matter), but I want to see more of a commitmenttowards
making it happen from my fellow Lego users.
P.S. I only own two WW themed sets, but I do own a 3225 and a 7722 which I
will use in an attempt to get a basic western-style train set. It'll be
awhile 'cos I've got a limited space, but I'll let ya'll know how its coming
along as soon as work starts on it.
Anyway, lets keep this discussion going,
ciao 4 now,
---D
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> deciding what sets get released in the future. Like I said, I'd definitely
> support any movement to get lego to release a western-themed trainset (even
> stormtroopers for that matter), but I want to see more of a commitmenttowards
> making it happen from my fellow Lego users.
I saw a picture on a site of a brilliant western display made by TLG, with a
western train, that looks just perfect (the engine does anyway). It would probobly
sell like hotcakes with train fals, who want better trains and also with WW fans,
who want a western style train.
--
Jonathan Wilson
wilsonj@xoommail.com
http://members.xoom.com/wilsonj/
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In lugnet.western, Jonathan Wilson writes:
> > deciding what sets get released in the future. Like I said, I'd definitely
> > support any movement to get lego to release a western-themed trainset (even
> > stormtroopers for that matter), but I want to see more of a • commitmenttowards
> > making it happen from my fellow Lego users.
>
> I saw a picture on a site of a brilliant western display made by TLG, with a
> western train, that looks just perfect (the engine does anyway). It would
> probobly
> sell like hotcakes with train fals, who want better trains and also with WW
> fans,
> who want a western style train.
I think the site you're talking about is Eric Brok's site.
Click on 'Displays by Lego', then on 'Wild West':
http://homepages.svc.fcj.hvu.nl/brok/legomind/models/index.htm
I tend to agree with your reasoning, BTW!
HTH,
-Shiri
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Jonathan Wilson wrote:
> > deciding what sets get released in the future. Like I said, I'd definitely
> > support any movement to get lego to release a western-themed trainset (even
> > stormtroopers for that matter), but I want to see more of a commitmenttowards
> > making it happen from my fellow Lego users.
>
> I saw a picture on a site of a brilliant western display made by TLG, with a
> western train, that looks just perfect (the engine does anyway). It would probobly
> sell like hotcakes with train fals, who want better trains and also with WW fans,
> who want a western style train.
>
> --
> Jonathan Wilson
> wilsonj@xoommail.com
> http://members.xoom.com/wilsonj/
I'm not a LEGO Train buff, but I can certainly appreciate the old western style
trains. That is because my all time favorite LEGO model set is #396 Thatcher Perkins
(1863) locomotive. It is built to a larger scale than the normal LEGO trains. It has
the feel and look of an old time western train. I have this set, and even built a
coal tender and 1800's passenger car to the same scale (but using the 2x2 smaller red
spoked wheels).
Gary Istok
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In lugnet.western, Gary R. Istok writes:
>
>
> Jonathan Wilson wrote:
>
> > > deciding what sets get released in the future. Like I said, I'd definitely
> > > support any movement to get lego to release a western-themed trainset (even
> > > stormtroopers for that matter), but I want to see more of a commitmenttowards
> > > making it happen from my fellow Lego users.
> >
> > I saw a picture on a site of a brilliant western display made by TLG, with a
> > western train, that looks just perfect (the engine does anyway). It would probobly
> > sell like hotcakes with train fals, who want better trains and also with WW fans,
> > who want a western style train.
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Wilson
> > wilsonj@xoommail.com
> > http://members.xoom.com/wilsonj/
>
> I'm not a LEGO Train buff, but I can certainly appreciate the old western style
> trains. That is because my all time favorite LEGO model set is #396 Thatcher Perkins
> (1863) locomotive. It is built to a larger scale than the normal LEGO trains. It has
> the feel and look of an old time western train. I have this set, and even built a
> coal tender and 1800's passenger car to the same scale (but using the 2x2 smaller red
> spoked wheels).
>
> Gary Istok
I noticed that 396 has yellow macaroni bricks...those have to be extremely rare,
no?
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In lugnet.western, James Simpson writes:
> I noticed that 396 has yellow macaroni bricks...those have to be extremely • rare,
> no?
I have not as many in yellow as I have in white, red and black, but I think
blue ones have been more rare in the past (now you could find them in some
sets during the last years.
But Rarest macaroni bricks are the transparent ones.
Regards,
Ben
BTW: has anyone ever seen the first macaroni bricks? They have not a quarter of
a circle, but had been doubled in relation to the ones from today. Two of them
made a circle perfect.....
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In lugnet.western, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke writes:
> In lugnet.western, James Simpson writes:
> > I noticed that 396 has yellow macaroni bricks...those have to be extremely • rare,
> > no?
>
> I have not as many in yellow as I have in white, red and black, but I think
> blue ones have been more rare in the past (now you could find them in some
> sets during the last years.
> But Rarest macaroni bricks are the transparent ones.
Do clear macaroni bricks really exist!!??? What set? I'd like to check it out
on Brickshelf.
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<SNIP>
> Do clear macaroni bricks really exist!!??? What set? I'd like to check it • out
> on Brickshelf.
Yes, I believe I have ONE clear macaroni brick in my collection...unless I
traded it already. I think Zonker got a couple clear bricks in trade when I
wasn't paying much attention. =) Of course I got a Majisto and Dragon Master
knight in trade, so it was okay.
Aaron
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Yes clear do exist. I have "several". If you want to know which set had the
most, here it is (thanks to Horst Lehner's cool catalog website). This is the
reverse side to the 1961-62 USA Samsonite Catalog, where the parts packs are
located. Check out parts pack 224, which was available in gray.
http://horst-lehner.mausnet.de/lego/katalog/us6x/US6x-2.JPG
The biggest decade for clear macaroni bricks was the 1960's. The USA #725 Town
Plan set had about 20 of these. The Esso Service gas station set (#310) also had
2, but was never available in the USA (this set was never available in the USA,
but the parts/parts packs were available here).
Gary Istok
Aaron Hines wrote:
> <SNIP>
>
> > Do clear macaroni bricks really exist!!??? What set? I'd like to check it • out
> > on Brickshelf.
>
> Yes, I believe I have ONE clear macaroni brick in my collection...unless I
> traded it already. I think Zonker got a couple clear bricks in trade when I
> wasn't paying much attention. =) Of course I got a Majisto and Dragon Master
> knight in trade, so it was okay.
>
> Aaron
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In lugnet.western, Gary R. Istok writes:
> Yes clear do exist. I have "several". If you want to know which set had the
> most, here it is (thanks to Horst Lehner's cool catalog website). This is the
> reverse side to the 1961-62 USA Samsonite Catalog, where the parts packs are
> located. Check out parts pack 224, which was available in gray.
>
> http://horst-lehner.mausnet.de/lego/katalog/us6x/US6x-2.JPG
>
> The biggest decade for clear macaroni bricks was the 1960's. The USA #725 Town
> Plan set had about 20 of these. The Esso Service gas station set (#310) also had
> 2, but was never available in the USA (this set was never available in the USA,
> but the parts/parts packs were available here).
>
> Gary Istok
Cool! Thanks for the info.!
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In lugnet.western, Gary R. Istok writes:
> Yes clear do exist. I have "several". If you want to know which set had the
> most, here it is (thanks to Horst Lehner's cool catalog website). This is the
> reverse side to the 1961-62 USA Samsonite Catalog, where the parts packs are
> located. Check out parts pack 224, which was available in gray.
>
> http://horst-lehner.mausnet.de/lego/katalog/us6x/US6x-2.JPG
>
> The biggest decade for clear macaroni bricks was the 1960's. The USA #725 • Town
> Plan set had about 20 of these. The Esso Service gas station set (#310) also • had
> 2, but was never available in the USA (this set was never available in the • USA,
> but the parts/parts packs were available here).
>
> Gary Istok
>
>
> Aaron Hines wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > > Do clear macaroni bricks really exist!!??? What set? I'd like to check it • out
> > > on Brickshelf.
> >
> > Yes, I believe I have ONE clear macaroni brick in my collection...unless I
> > traded it already. I think Zonker got a couple clear bricks in trade when I
> > wasn't paying much attention. =) Of course I got a Majisto and Dragon • Master
> > knight in trade, so it was okay.
> >
> > Aaron
As Gary has said, yes they do exist. I used to be able to (once in a while)
play with my Uncle's collection, which included clear macaroni bricks, and a
neighbor friend of mine was lucky enough to have (what I considered at the
time) a masive collection, when I was a young child.
Rich.
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Richard Schamus wrote:
> In lugnet.western, Gary R. Istok writes:
> > Yes clear do exist. I have "several". If you want to know which set had the
> > most, here it is (thanks to Horst Lehner's cool catalog website). This is the
> > reverse side to the 1961-62 USA Samsonite Catalog, where the parts packs are
> > located. Check out parts pack 224, which was available in gray.
> >
> > http://horst-lehner.mausnet.de/lego/katalog/us6x/US6x-2.JPG
> >
> > The biggest decade for clear macaroni bricks was the 1960's. The USA #725 • Town
> > Plan set had about 20 of these. The Esso Service gas station set (#310) also • had
> > 2, but was never available in the USA (this set was never available in the • USA,
> > but the parts/parts packs were available here).
> >
> > Gary Istok
> >
> >
> > Aaron Hines wrote:
> >
> > > <SNIP>
> > >
> > > > Do clear macaroni bricks really exist!!??? What set? I'd like to check it • out
> > > > on Brickshelf.
> > >
> > > Yes, I believe I have ONE clear macaroni brick in my collection...unless I
> > > traded it already. I think Zonker got a couple clear bricks in trade when I
> > > wasn't paying much attention. =) Of course I got a Majisto and Dragon • Master
> > > knight in trade, so it was okay.
> > >
> > > Aaron
> As Gary has said, yes they do exist. I used to be able to (once in a while)
> play with my Uncle's collection, which included clear macaroni bricks, and a
> neighbor friend of mine was lucky enough to have (what I considered at the
> time) a masive collection, when I was a young child.
>
> Rich.
As a kid growing up in Detroit in the early 1960's, whenever I got 50 cents or a
dollar together I used to go up to the neighborhood bicycle shop, which also
carried LEGO. I ended up buying the macaroni brick parts packs in every color
available back then except yellow (I got red, white, blue, clear, black). I made
up for it as an adult, and bought 4 packs in yellow. Interestingly enough, the
Cellulose Acetate macaroni bricks didn't tend to warp as much as the other CA
pieces, and are still usable today (as are all my CA windows). Not true for many
other CA bricks and slopes.
Gary Istok
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There was also *one* available in 316 Fire Fighting Launch. If you look at the
Brickshelf scan of the instructions <http://www.brickshelf.com/scans/0000/0316-
1977/> the part in question is visible at the bottom of step 6 and the top of
step 7.
-Cheese
In lugnet.western, James Simpson writes:
> In lugnet.western, Reinhard "Ben" Beneke writes:
> > In lugnet.western, James Simpson writes:
> > > I noticed that 396 has yellow macaroni bricks...those have to be extremely • rare,
> > > no?
> >
> > I have not as many in yellow as I have in white, red and black, but I think
> > blue ones have been more rare in the past (now you could find them in some
> > sets during the last years.
> > But Rarest macaroni bricks are the transparent ones.
>
> Do clear macaroni bricks really exist!!??? What set? I'd like to check it • out
> on Brickshelf.
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Reinhard \"Ben\" Beneke wrote:
> In lugnet.western, James Simpson writes:
> > I noticed that 396 has yellow macaroni bricks...those have to be extremely • rare,
> > no?
>
> I have not as many in yellow as I have in white, red and black, but I think
> blue ones have been more rare in the past (now you could find them in some
> sets during the last years.
> But Rarest macaroni bricks are the transparent ones.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> BTW: has anyone ever seen the first macaroni bricks? They have not a quarter of
> a circle, but had been doubled in relation to the ones from today. Two of them
> made a circle perfect.....
Hi Ben,
Funny you should talk about the half circle bricks..... I just found my October
29,1999 post here in lugnet.general where I talked about the rarest LEGO bricks.
Rather than cross referencing it, I just copied/pasted it below. Enjoy!
Gary Istok
------------------------------ reprint
10/29/99-----------------------------------------------
Well, just when I thought I've seen it all......
Yesterday I received a LEGO package (of pieces and parts packs from the
1950's) from a gentleman in Denmark. And among them was something that
really startled me. It was a parts pack from 1956 that had macaroni
bricks (nickname for the 2x2 quarter circle bricks). What really
shocked me was the fact that there were 4 different types of macaroni
bricks, 3 types of which I had never seen before. They are:
1) The type that is still in use today 45 years later.
2) The same as type 1, except they don't have that missing "notch" on
the bottom outer edge of the piece that makes building them onto a
baseplate possible.
3) A "half circle" macaroni piece (the exact dimensions as 2 macaroni
bricks plased end to end), with 2 of those notches.
4) A "half circle" macaroni piece without the 2 notches.
The only complaint I have with the current macaroni bricks is the fact
that when stacked (or staggered) they have those unsightly holes (from
the notches). In the very earliest LEGO (from the mid 1950's), TLG took
care of that problem by having some of the macaroni bricks without those
notches. But probably around 1958, they discontinued 3 of the 4
varieties of these bricks, and only kept the variety we still have
today. Too bad, because I really like these notchless pieces.
I went back to Hortst Lehner's fabulous website of early LEGO catalogs,
and saw that in the 1957 catalog the parts pack #224 shows a white
quarter circle brick, and a red half circle brick (I probably thought it
was 2 quarter circle bricks). Check it out:
http://horst-lehner.mausnet.de/lego/katalog/gk57/GK57-2.JPG
Then in Horst's 1958 catalog it shows only the quarter circle bricks
(parts pack #224). At this point, the half circle bricks were already
discontinued. Check it out:
http://horst-lehner.mausnet.de/lego/katalog/gk58/GK58-2.JPG
So these half circle macaroni bricks and the quarter/half circle
macaroni bricks without notches were only produced from the early 1950's
until 1957. Maybe we should nickname the half circle macaroni bricks
something more appropriate ..... how about the ......... "Rigatoni
Bricks"? (heh-heh)
Gary Istok
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> <macaroni
> bricks (nickname for the 2x2 quarter circle bricks). What really
> shocked me was the fact that there were 4 different types of macaroni
> bricks, 3 types of which I had never seen before. They are:
>
> 1) The type that is still in use today 45 years later.
> 2) The same as type 1, except they don't have that missing "notch" on
> the bottom outer edge of the piece that makes building them onto a
> baseplate possible.
> 3) A "half circle" macaroni piece (the exact dimensions as 2 macaroni
> bricks plased end to end), with 2 of those notches.
> 4) A "half circle" macaroni piece without the 2 notches.
Hi Gary,
that's really interesting. I hadn't heard of those bricks before (and I'm a
quite new Lugnet reader, so I missied your old post).
Thanks for posting it again!
Regards,
Ben
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James Simpson wrote:
> In lugnet.western, Gary R. Istok writes:
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Wilson wrote:
> >
> > > > deciding what sets get released in the future. Like I said, I'd definitely
> > > > support any movement to get lego to release a western-themed trainset (even
> > > > stormtroopers for that matter), but I want to see more of a commitmenttowards
> > > > making it happen from my fellow Lego users.
> > >
> > > I saw a picture on a site of a brilliant western display made by TLG, with a
> > > western train, that looks just perfect (the engine does anyway). It would probobly
> > > sell like hotcakes with train fals, who want better trains and also with WW fans,
> > > who want a western style train.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Wilson
> > > wilsonj@xoommail.com
> > > http://members.xoom.com/wilsonj/
> >
> > I'm not a LEGO Train buff, but I can certainly appreciate the old western style
> > trains. That is because my all time favorite LEGO model set is #396 Thatcher Perkins
> > (1863) locomotive. It is built to a larger scale than the normal LEGO trains. It has
> > the feel and look of an old time western train. I have this set, and even built a
> > coal tender and 1800's passenger car to the same scale (but using the 2x2 smaller red
> > spoked wheels).
> >
> > Gary Istok
>
> I noticed that 396 has yellow macaroni bricks...those have to be extremely rare,
> no?
Well yes and no. Macaroni Bricks have always been rather scarce, but I still think they
make yellow ones in recent sets.
The 396 also has blue macaroni bricks. But the scarce stuff are the red 6 large and 4
small spoked wheels (I think the going rate in EBAY on the red large spoked wheels is about
$15-20 per pair). There are 6 red arches (4) 1x6 and (2) 1x4. There are also (2) 1x4 red
fence gates, (3) 2x2 yellow windows, (3) 1x1 fat minifig yellow rounds (without any faces
or holes in the top), a bunch of large black plates, a lot of 1x1 rounds in black, yellow
and blue, and a fair number of regular slopes in red, blue and especially black. The true
rare pieces in this set are the (1) 2x2 black spoked train wheel (for above the cow
catcher) and (2) pair of the piston/rod/tie bars used for the large spoked wheels. If one
had all these spare pieces, one could build these from scratch. :-)
Gary Istok
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Yes, yellow is extremely rare today. Luckily, The Construction Site has (had?) a Dacta set
that has EIGHT of them in it, so I finally have some. Though buying a $70-80 set for 8
pieces is a bit extreme in my book, I HAD to have them ;-)
(NO, I CAN'T remember the set #, so I can't tell you if they still have it, sorry).
James Simpson wrote:
> In lugnet.western, Gary R. Istok writes:
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Wilson wrote:
> >
> > > > deciding what sets get released in the future. Like I said, I'd definitely
> > > > support any movement to get lego to release a western-themed trainset (even
> > > > stormtroopers for that matter), but I want to see more of a commitmenttowards
> > > > making it happen from my fellow Lego users.
> > >
> > > I saw a picture on a site of a brilliant western display made by TLG, with a
> > > western train, that looks just perfect (the engine does anyway). It would probobly
> > > sell like hotcakes with train fals, who want better trains and also with WW fans,
> > > who want a western style train.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Wilson
> > > wilsonj@xoommail.com
> > > http://members.xoom.com/wilsonj/
> >
> > I'm not a LEGO Train buff, but I can certainly appreciate the old western style
> > trains. That is because my all time favorite LEGO model set is #396 Thatcher Perkins
> > (1863) locomotive. It is built to a larger scale than the normal LEGO trains. It has
> > the feel and look of an old time western train. I have this set, and even built a
> > coal tender and 1800's passenger car to the same scale (but using the 2x2 smaller red
> > spoked wheels).
> >
> > Gary Istok
>
> I noticed that 396 has yellow macaroni bricks...those have to be extremely rare,
> no?
--
| Tom Stangl, Technical Support Netscape Communications Corp
| Please do not associate my personal views with my employer
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In lugnet.western, Tom Stangl writes:
> Yes, yellow is extremely rare today. Luckily, The Construction Site has (had?) a Dacta set
> that has EIGHT of them in it, so I finally have some. Though buying a $70-80 set for 8
> pieces is a bit extreme in my book, I HAD to have them ;-)
The set is 9453. Check http://www.constructiontoys.com under DACTA, 5+ sets.
It also has 4 white 2x2 classic windows and a 16x32 grey baseplate (course you
can always make your own using scissors.)
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Erik Olson wrote:
> In lugnet.western, Tom Stangl writes:
> > Yes, yellow is extremely rare today. Luckily, The Construction Site has (had?) a Dacta set
> > that has EIGHT of them in it, so I finally have some. Though buying a $70-80 set for 8
> > pieces is a bit extreme in my book, I HAD to have them ;-)
>
> The set is 9453. Check http://www.constructiontoys.com under DACTA, 5+ sets.
>
> It also has 4 white 2x2 classic windows and a 16x32 grey baseplate (course you
> can always make your own using scissors.)
...or you could simply buy a 6958 Android Base, which comes with one. ;) (Actually, have any
recent sets come with a 32x32 grey baseplate?)
best
Lindsay
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In lugnet.western, Damien Nesbit writes:
> Todd Lehman e-mailed me earlier on today and guided me towards Suzanne
> Rich's website www.baseplate.com. It's an awesome sight in general, but she
> may be able to aid some of you western enthusiasts specifically if you check
> out the www.baseplates.com/kits section. Suzanne offers a few custom sets 2
> of which are "women of the west" (which includes 3 minifig femme-fatales) and
> her "saloon bartender" (which comes complete with a bar, and a keg of ale).
> As far as S.H.E.I.L.D. agent David Little's latest response to my comments,
> I'll say that I think that all Lego enthusiasts should depend more on their
> own imaginations than on the imaginations of the paid lego set designers.
> This goes for all of the LUGNET user newsgroups.
Damien, I agree with you on most of your points. I am currently working on a
western themed set up in which I am mixing elements from adventurer, ninja,
and pirate sets that I own. It is a coastal fort with a near by town. When
ever I get a chance to finish it (work is making that difficult) I will put
them up on a website for all to see.
Again Damien I apolagize if I misunderstood you earlier.
Thanks
David
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No offense taken, david. I know that my style is a little abrasive. Did
you see Shiri Dori's posting? It recommends checking out
http://homepages.svc.fcj.hvu.nl/brok/legomind/models/index.htm
Click on 'Displays by Lego', then on 'Wild West'. It's pretty rad. I
especially liked the brown railroad ties.
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In lugnet.western, Damien Nesbit writes:
> No offense taken, david. I know that my style is a little abrasive. Did
> you see Shiri Dori's posting? It recommends checking out
> http://homepages.svc.fcj.hvu.nl/brok/legomind/models/index.htm
> Click on 'Displays by Lego', then on 'Wild West'. It's pretty rad. I
> especially liked the brown railroad ties.
Ah yes I have seen this before. I had forgoten where I had seen it tho. I
have always thought that those cattle were the coolest. If I could only get
my hands on that many burps I would be set. Unfortunately I have had my lego
buying reduced by my better half. But I have been able to find some stuff at
the local flee market here lately. I also just spent my entire bonus check on
lego. Luckly where I work I can always be the first to find out when we
clearence out lego sets. I got Flying Ninja Fortress for $40 about a month
ago and I got Pharaoh's Forbidden Ruins for $60 last week.
With all these sets I have been picking up lately I am trying to build a
massive display. I know I want it to be a coastal fort. I just keep changing
my mind on the date I want it to be set in. One day I think I want it to be
around the 1880-1890s. The next I want it to be the 1920s mixed with alot of
adventurer elements. Anyway I have the base of the fort started and I just
have to decide on a time period before I move on.
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> With all these sets I have been picking up lately I am trying to build a
> massive display. I know I want it to be a coastal fort. I just keep changing
> my mind on the date I want it to be set in. One day I think I want it to be
> around the 1880-1890s. The next I want it to be the 1920s mixed with alot of
> adventurer elements. Anyway I have the base of the fort started and I just
> have to decide on a time period before I move on.
> David
Just to suggest how you might incorporate a variety of time periods into
one display, consider some of the older cities of the world (especially the
european ones that weren't ravished by the bombs of war) that have very
antiquated architectural elements surrounded by modern conveniences. You
could definitely have a coastal fort from the 1800's in a 1920's setting.
Maybe the fort has hence been transformed into a grainary or factory of some
type. As the roads get further away from the fort and the Olde Down Town
section of the display, the buildings could get more modern. Meanwhile, the
minifigs could be garbd in the latest fashions of the day. Get my drift?
just a suggestion.
---D.
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In lugnet.western, Damien Nesbit writes:
Just to suggest how you might incorporate a variety of time periods into
> one display, consider some of the older cities of the world (especially the
> european ones that weren't ravished by the bombs of war) that have very
> antiquated architectural elements surrounded by modern conveniences. You
> could definitely have a coastal fort from the 1800's in a 1920's setting.
> Maybe the fort has hence been transformed into a grainary or factory of some
> type. As the roads get further away from the fort and the Olde Down Town
> section of the display, the buildings could get more modern. Meanwhile, the
> minifigs could be garbd in the latest fashions of the day. Get my drift?
> just a suggestion.
> ---D.
Great Ideas. I think that gives me something to work on. I have been going
to Fort Pickens here in Pensacola which is a civil war era coastal fort that
had many upgrades to modernize it up until the 1920's I belive. I have been
useing it as kind of a reference. I really like your idea. I probably would
have never thought of it.
Thanks
David
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> Oh yeah, I thoroughly support the
> request that TLC manufacture some cacti
Between my Settlers Cabin and Outhouse
there are cacti (some with red flowers).
They were copied from ones I saw in an
official LEGO Wild West display case.
Allan J Smith
--
My LEGO creations site "Allanton NZ" is at
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~allanj/
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Does anyone have
> any
> interesting suggestions concerning future possibilites for Wild West, if • Lego
> resurrects this theme?
>
> Mike
1. bisons
2. more bisons
3. saloon
4. barn
5. farm with settlers, cattle...
6. railroad theme
7. gold rush theme
8. judge, gallows
Arnold
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> 1. bisons
> 2. more bisons
> 3. saloon
> 4. barn
> 5. farm with settlers, cattle...
> 6. railroad theme
> 7. gold rush theme
> 8. judge, gallows
>
> Arnold
I would agree. Also a ranch and a church. I think they should also do a
southern theme with a tex-mex feel to it. You got to have those mexican
banditos. Then a northern feel with a cabin and mountain men.
Greatest wants
1. Shot gun (they only had one in every house in the old west) and knives
2. Confederates
3. Banditos with sombreros
4. Trains!!!!
David
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> > 1. bisons
> > 2. more bisons
> > 3. saloon
> > 4. barn
> > 5. farm with settlers, cattle...
> > 6. railroad theme
> > 7. gold rush theme
> > 8. judge, gallows
> >
> > Arnold
>
> 1. Shot gun (they only had one in every house in the old west) and knives
> 2. Confederates
> 3. Banditos with sombreros
> 4. Trains!!!!
>
> David
And what about a desert theme with
1. cattle skeleton
2. cactuses
3. vultures
4. coyote
Arnold
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In lugnet.western, Mike Kane writes:
> The Lego group really ought to have done more with this theme. Frankly, I • love
> the Wild West stuff. Everything was good about this theme; the buildings and
> Indian camps looked really cool,
I definitely agree. The western theme was excellent with great pieces, great
minifigs, great color schemes and overall truly excellent overall models. The
models weren't even juniorized, even though there were some BURPs (cough,
cough) in some of the sets. Among many things I'd like to see continued in
the wild west theme are the road baseplates. So far there was only a curve
baseplate in the bandit's hideout. Why not make a straight road, a crossroad
and a t-road? Sort of similar to the town road plates only these would be in
tan. That would be great!!
By the way the wild west theme was first introduced before the current era
minfigs (before 1978). There were sets 372 (ranch), 617 (2 cowboys?), 697
(stagecoach) and 365 (wild west scene). I never owned these old sets but it
looks like the cowboy hats from these old sets have survived into the '96 wild
west theme. Also the "bank" sticker in set 365 looks strangely similar to the
one in set 6765 gold city junction.
These two occurences of a short series of wild west sets were only about 20
years apart and I hope it will be shorter than that before some new wild west
sets pop up again! Although I hope that the future wild west sets will not be
so hideously juniorized like the new castle sets.
--Dan
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D. Jezek <danjezek@REMOVEaloha.net> wrote:
> The western theme was excellent with great pieces, great
> minifigs, great color schemes and overall truly excellent overall models. • The
> models weren't even juniorized
I definitely disagree here. IMHO the models were juniorized indeed: just
think of the bank, general store, and bandits' hideout!
, even though there were some BURPs (cough,
> cough) in some of the sets.
Another oddity was the assemblage of the four Fort Legoredo parts. Why
didn't they use bricks with side pegs (just as in the early Castle sets!) to
connect the four walls? I don't understand this.....
> These two occurences of a short series of wild west sets were only about • 20
> years apart and I hope it will be shorter than that before some new wild • west
> sets pop up again! Although I hope that the future wild west sets will • not be
> so hideously juniorized like the new castle sets.
I'm afraid the Wild West theme won't be continued, it doesn't seem to be
very popular if you compare the number of contributions in this newsgroup to
the ones in lugnet.castle or lugnet.pirates..... unfortunately!
Arnold
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In lugnet.western, Arnold Staniczek writes:
> I'm afraid the Wild West theme won't be continued, it doesn't seem to be
> very popular if you compare the number of contributions in this newsgroup to
> the ones in lugnet.castle or lugnet.pirates..... unfortunately!
Hard to say... you are measuring it to a very demanding scale... Pirates and
Castle (and Space) are the most popular themes LEGO has produced; it's a hard
act to follow.
I liked western - some good sets for parting out(1), and decent playability
(IMHO). It just never took off. My personal opinion is that cowboys and
indians just aren't "cool" for kids to play with any more - LEGO missed the
boat on timing.
James
http://www.shades-of-night.com/lego/
1: I've still got my eye on a local stash of Bandit's Hideout and Fort
Legoredo, waiting for clearance...
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In lugnet.western, James Brown writes:
> In lugnet.western, Arnold Staniczek writes:
> > I'm afraid the Wild West theme won't be continued, it doesn't seem to be
> > very popular if you compare the number of contributions in this newsgroup to
> > the ones in lugnet.castle or lugnet.pirates..... unfortunately!
>
> Hard to say... you are measuring it to a very demanding scale... Pirates and
> Castle (and Space) are the most popular themes LEGO has produced; it's a hard
> act to follow.
>
> I liked western - some good sets for parting out(1), and decent playability
> (IMHO). It just never took off. My personal opinion is that cowboys and
> indians just aren't "cool" for kids to play with any more - LEGO missed the
> boat on timing.
>
> James
> http://www.shades-of-night.com/lego/
I think they will go back to Wild west within the next three to four years.
For now they are too busy with star wars and some of the other new themes. If
we show more interest here for the western theme than in the past maybe they
will take notice.
I definately would like to see a civil war theme! There is just too much left
to be done with this theme. Too many ways to expand it. You could even
modernize the pirates a little to fit the time line of the west.
We need more wild west.
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> I think they will go back to Wild west within the next three to four years.
> For now they are too busy with star wars and some of the other new themes. If
> we show more interest here for the western theme than in the past maybe they
> will take notice.
> I definately would like to see a civil war theme! There is just too much left
> to be done with this theme. Too many ways to expand it. You could even
> modernize the pirates a little to fit the time line of the west.
>
> We need more wild west.
> David
A Civil War theme would be great!! They can have little forts, or some of
the armored ships that started to appear then! Tons of playset possibilites
. . . .
-Jonathan
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In lugnet.western, Jonathan Little writes:
> In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
>
> > I think they will go back to Wild west within the next three to four years.
> > For now they are too busy with star wars and some of the other new themes. • If
> > we show more interest here for the western theme than in the past maybe they
> > will take notice.
> > I definately would like to see a civil war theme! There is just too much left
> > to be done with this theme. Too many ways to expand it. You could even
> > modernize the pirates a little to fit the time line of the west.
> >
> > We need more wild west.
> > David
>
> A Civil War theme would be great!! They can have little forts, or some of
> the armored ships that started to appear then! Tons of playset possibilites
> . . . .
>
> -Jonathan
Now were talking. Who else wants a Civil War theme?
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> In lugnet.western, Jonathan Little writes:
> > In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> >
> > > I think they will go back to Wild west within the next three to four years.
> > > For now they are too busy with star wars and some of the other new themes. • If
> > > we show more interest here for the western theme than in the past maybe they
> > > will take notice.
> > > I definately would like to see a civil war theme! There is just too much • left
> > > to be done with this theme. Too many ways to expand it. You could even
> > > modernize the pirates a little to fit the time line of the west.
> > >
> > > We need more wild west.
> > > David
> >
> > A Civil War theme would be great!! They can have little forts, or some of
> > the armored ships that started to appear then! Tons of playset possibilites
> > . . . .
> >
> > -Jonathan
>
> Now were talking. Who else wants a Civil War theme?
> David
I do!!!
Cool...
An Abraham Limcoln minifig...
Black slaves...
Black?
There's a problem here.
How would TLC deal with the issues of racism, slaves, etc.?
Up till now, there weren't any black-white-minorities issues, since all
minifigs were yellow. (Chinese, maybe? :-)
I remember some comments (can't remember who, though) about the fact that TLC
avoided racesim issues by not giving the minifigs a race at all.
So how would they make slaves, or slavers, without changing the minifigs faces?
Hmmm...
Any suggestions?
-Shiri
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> Black slaves...
>
> Black?
> There's a problem here.
> How would TLC deal with the issues of racism, slaves, etc.?
> Up till now, there weren't any black-white-minorities issues, since all
> minifigs were yellow. (Chinese, maybe? :-)
> I remember some comments (can't remember who, though) about the fact that TLC
> avoided racesim issues by not giving the minifigs a race at all.
> So how would they make slaves, or slavers, without changing the minifigs • faces?
>
> Hmmm...
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> -Shiri
Go to the .starwars group, they've been debating the race issue for at least a
week.
Karl Martinson
raymart@jam21.net
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In lugnet.western, Karl Martinson writes:
> > Black slaves...
> >
> > Black?
> > There's a problem here.
> > How would TLC deal with the issues of racism, slaves, etc.?
> > Up till now, there weren't any black-white-minorities issues, since all
> > minifigs were yellow. (Chinese, maybe? :-)
> > I remember some comments (can't remember who, though) about the fact that TLC
> > avoided racesim issues by not giving the minifigs a race at all.
> > So how would they make slaves, or slavers, without changing the minifigs • faces?
> >
> > Hmmm...
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> > -Shiri
>
> Go to the .starwars group, they've been debating the race issue for at least a
> week.
>
> Karl Martinson
> raymart@jam21.net
Yeah, the message that I'm replying to is a couple months old, but I've gotta
add my $.02 'cos this deals with some issues that are important to me. I
didn't go back through the .starwars discussions to find where exactly the
race issue comes up, but it's the addition of the SW theme to Lego that is
going to force Lego to deal with this issue. Will they ever put a lando
calrissian minifig on the market? Maybe not, but they will probably be forced
to do a Mace Windu (played by Samuel L. Jackson) as I hear that his role in
episode 2 is a major one. I really want to see a Lando Calrissian (even if
they never make a 40 oz. malt liquor bottle minifig accessory and I'm not able
to do Billy Dee's legendary Colt 45 commercials in Lego) and I want him in two
costumes - his Bespin outfit and his disguise as one of Jabba's guards. In
fact, Lego may jeopardize my customer loyalty if they try to release a Jabba's
throne room playset without a Lando. It's bad enough that he wasn't in the
desert skiff set. Also let me say that I don't think that Lego would ever do
a civil war sub-category to continue the WW theme ( Lego's a european company
and they have no responsibility to portray the history of our country in their
toys), but that if they did there's really no reason to include slaves in any
of the playsets whether they're depicted as African or European.
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I to would love to see lando make it into lego. I just think something would
be missing if he didn't.
About lego not doing civil war sets, I would not rule it out. Remember
Playmobil is a european company and they do american civil war figures. Lego
is a very different company from Playmobil in some cases, but I think that
them being in europe is not the deturing factor. If anything keeps them from
doing a civil war theme I think that it will be the fact that they don't want
to be a war toy.
Back to the lando thing, I don't know what lego will do about this issue, but
I agree with you that star wars will force this issue on lego. Kind of funny
tho. Lego can build entire cities and themes but they are torn on what to do
about a minifig.
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> I to would love to see lando make it into lego. I just think something would
> be missing if he didn't.
> About lego not doing civil war sets, I would not rule it out. Remember
> Playmobil is a european company and they do american civil war figures. Lego
> is a very different company from Playmobil in some cases, but I think that
> them being in europe is not the deturing factor. If anything keeps them from
> doing a civil war theme I think that it will be the fact that they don't want
> to be a war toy.
> Back to the lando thing, I don't know what lego will do about this issue, but
> I agree with you that star wars will force this issue on lego. Kind of funny
> tho. Lego can build entire cities and themes but they are torn on what to do
> about a minifig.
> David
Once upon a time it was evident that Lego was not a war toy, back when
the castle and space themes were young, but it seems that with each new theme,
or introduction of a sub theme Lego is just beggin' the kids to play war with
their Legos. Space Police v. Blacktron, Forrestmen v. Knights, Aquanauts v.
Aqua raiders, Cowboys v. Indians, Rebellion v. Empire. Honestly, these days
TLC would have to spin a yarn 10 miles long to debate that they aren't a war
toy. I agree that their main purpose is construction oriented play, but to
market legos in the 21st century, they've definately taken a more agressive
perspective in designing their sets.
p.s., glad to hear that you liked my ideas for your western display, I hope
they work out.
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> About lego not doing civil war sets, I would not rule it out. Remember
> Playmobil is a european company and they do american civil war figures. Lego
> is a very different company from Playmobil in some cases, but I think that
> them being in europe is not the deturing factor. If anything keeps them from
> doing a civil war theme I think that it will be the fact that they don't want
> to be a war toy.
> David
I'm confused. There's all this talk about how Lego won't do a Civil war
theme, because it's American and Lego is European. The thing is, the whole
western theme is American, in the first place. The whole cowboys and indians
(or Native AMERICANS) thing is from US history. The blue-clad soldiers are
wearing uniforms of the US army, circa late 19th century. If Lego never does
a Civil war theme, I don't see how it would have anything to do with the
fact that Lego is a European company.
-Jonathan
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Notice "Follow-Up"...
In lugnet.western, Jonathan Little writes:
>
> ... The whole cowboys and Indians
> (or Native AMERICANS) ...
[screech!...]
[CRASH!!!]
You just hit one of my major pet peeves.
*I* am a native American citizen.
I am *NOT*, however, of the American Indian ethnicity!!!
I was _born_ here in the US of A.
_ANYONE_ who was _BORN_ within the territorial limits of the country
of their citizenship is a _NATIVE_ of that country!
As a counter-example:
My mom is a _naturalized_ American;
she was born in _Cuba_,
and later _emigrated_ here.
In case you couldn't tell, I loathe and despise
political correctness.
I consider political correctness to be a form of
intellectual dishonesty.
It was not my intention to cause anger or embarassment,
only to help contribute to the education of the populace
at large.
Thanks,
Franklin
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In lugnet.western, Jonathan Little wrote:
> I'm confused. There's all this talk about how Lego won't do a Civil war
> theme, because it's American and Lego is European. The thing is, the whole
> western theme is American, in the first place. The whole cowboys and indians
> (or Native AMERICANS) thing is from US history. The blue-clad soldiers are
> wearing uniforms of the US army, circa late 19th century. If Lego never does
> a Civil war theme, I don't see how it would have anything to do with the
> fact that Lego is a European company.
It's because the "Wild West" is a genre of interest in Europe, possibly
more than it is here. Very much from the mythological "Cowboys 'n'
Injuns" POV, rather than real history. The US Civil War isn't of
particular interest to Europeans (especially European *kids*).
So, if we ever get a Civil War theme, I would expect it to be developed
in Enfield, not Billund.
Steve
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In lugnet.western, Steve Bliss writes:
> In lugnet.western, Jonathan Little wrote:
>
> > I'm confused. There's all this talk about how Lego won't do a Civil war
> > theme, because it's American and Lego is European. The thing is, the whole
> > western theme is American, in the first place. The whole cowboys and indians
> > (or Native AMERICANS) thing is from US history. If Lego never does
> > a Civil war theme, I don't see how it would have anything to do with the
> > fact that Lego is a European company.
>
> It's because the "Wild West" is a genre of interest in Europe, possibly
> more than it is here. Very much from the mythological "Cowboys 'n'
> Injuns" POV, rather than real history. The US Civil War isn't of
> particular interest to Europeans (especially European *kids*).
>
> So, if we ever get a Civil War theme, I would expect it to be developed
> in Enfield, not Billund.
>
> Steve
Ok, I just think I have to agree with Jonathan on this one. I think that
there is interest for the american civil war in europe. I will make my
Playmobil reference again. They are a European company and they have civil
war sets. See for your self
http://www.playmobilshop.com/USA.catalog/38d8018e0415d9de273fd472aa63069d/Catal
og/1012
I think that they see it as interesting just as I see the zulu wars as
interesting to me. Why else would a well know European company sell American
civil war toys. You might have said that ninja's in lego would never happen
because there is no interest for them in Europe about five years ago. I think
that says it all.
David
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On 30 Dec. 1999, in lugnet.western, David little writes:
"...the pirate era was [when] most of the slave trading [ocurred] and lego
avoided that just as they could with the Civil War sets."
I'm all for African minifigs. I want minifig heads in all shades of
brown and in betwween. Imagine a shipful of slave trade escapees turned
pirates and terrorizing the seas of the carribbean. It's gotta start with
Lando and Mace! Let's Organize! How do we campaign for lego to create this?
Who's e-mail can we flood?
I'm ready.
Damien
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In lugnet.western, Damien Nesbit writes:
> On 30 Dec. 1999, in lugnet.western, David little writes:
> "...the pirate era was [when] most of the slave trading [ocurred] and lego
> avoided that just as they could with the Civil War sets."
>
> I'm all for African minifigs. I want minifig heads in all shades of
> brown and in betwween. Imagine a shipful of slave trade escapees turned
> pirates and terrorizing the seas of the carribbean. It's gotta start with
> Lando and Mace! Let's Organize! How do we campaign for lego to create this?
> Who's e-mail can we flood?
> I'm ready.
> Damien
I read somewhere here that Lego only does yellow heads to stay away from race
issues. Is this actually true? Has anyone confirmed this with Lego? Earlier
I had just took the yellow head thing for gospel when I read it.
Honestly I don't see what the big deal would be if they did make other ethnic
figs. What is there reasoning if this is true? Maybe I will write Lego and
find out if I don't hear anything back.
David
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(canceled)
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(canceled)
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In lugnet.western, Jon Furman writes:
>
> .In my previous post I did not delete the top portion, incorrectly
attributing my post to david little. I'm terribly sorry. Jon
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
I whole heartedly agree on this one, if Lego wants to do something, it gets
done, the star wars contract is a good example of that. I for one stopped
waiting for black minifigs years ago. I've been making my own with brown
paint and sculpy. Any one who wants to see pictures can reply and I'll e-mail
them to you in Jpg format. right noww I've got them in an urban setting with
a lowered cadillac and a boombox. Their hairpieces are all weaves Afros, or
minidreadlocks. i have different hair for different systems, and they look
cool incorporated into other timeperiods as Buffalo Soldiers, Natives, high
powered execs, etc.
As for confederate soldiers, you can easily incorporate two of the rock
raiders crew and the ship pilot from the adventurers set "river expedition"
into your rag tag johnny rebs. The Amazon adventurers series has a couple of
minifigs that translate well to the wild west system. The gray shirted bandit
with teo pistols in his waistband looks great with the grey, or black cavalry
hat. I've got Jpegs of my "Ghosts of the confederacy" menace too.
My western ste is going to be set just after the war, so there will be
renegade confederates as well as bandits and indians causing problems for the
town.
> In lugnet.western, Damien Nesbit writes:
> > On 30 Dec. 1999, in lugnet.western, David little writes:
> > "...the pirate era was [when] most of the slave trading [ocurred] and lego
> > avoided that just as they could with the Civil War sets."
> >
> > I'm all for African minifigs. I want minifig heads in all shades of
> > brown and in betwween. Imagine a shipful of slave trade escapees turned
> > pirates and terrorizing the seas of the carribbean. It's gotta start with
> > Lando and Mace! Let's Organize! How do we campaign for lego to create this?
> > Who's e-mail can we flood?
> > I'm ready.
> > Damien
>
> I read somewhere here that Lego only does yellow heads to stay away from race
> issues. Is this actually true? Has anyone confirmed this with Lego? Earlier
> I had just took the yellow head thing for gospel when I read it.
> Honestly I don't see what the big deal would be if they did make other ethnic
> figs. What is there reasoning if this is true? Maybe I will write Lego and
> find out if I don't hear anything back.
> David
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I just recieved an email from Jon Furman that included jpegs of his
homemade nubian minifigs. They are really the motts and anyone who has
followed this conversation that has not requested to recieve them from him
really should get in touch. Also, Jon brings up two good points within his
posting. number one is that rebel soldiers can be created with the grey caps
that are included in rock raiders and adventurers amazon playsets, and number
two is that setting your display in a period after the civil war may help a
builder use their existing collection more efficiently. In an earlier
correspondance that I sent to David Little a while back, I suggested that he
might combine his western and adventurers playsets into a single display that
would be set in a place where the architecture is circa the cicil war but
the "current" era is more modernized. He seemed to recieve the idea well. I
can't wait to see what he and Jon come up with next.
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In thinking about the future of wild west possibilities, especially when
combining WW with adventurers, the possibilities really are cool. The two
time periods are the closest together of all the sets. You could set the time
period towards the late 1800's, and include a confrontation between Northern
Native Americans-Nez Perce etc. , and The RCMP (Mounties) I've made mounties
from the red torso included with several paradisa sets,and the town minifigs,-
the horseback rider- black legs, gloves, a yellow pirate shoulder pauldron,
and the brown johnny thunder cap. A couple of these guys on horseback look
really cool.
Thinking ahead even further, you could set the time for the 1920's, even 30's,
and do a Chicago gangster theme. You could use the adventurer car parts and
make model t's. , even Trucks for shipping bootlegged whiskey into Canada
(more mounties!). THe Bad adventurer's sidekick (with the corny glasses), his
Black suits and top hats would make great capone style outfits, as would the
tuxedo waiter for the town, along with policemen, there are some cool
opportunities here. Oh well, we would need a Tommy gun for the minifigs.
This is almost an adventureres post ( Sorry)
In lugnet.western, Damien Nesbit writes:
> I just recieved an email from Jon Furman that included jpegs of his
> homemade nubian minifigs. They are really the motts and anyone who has
> followed this conversation that has not requested to recieve them from him
> really should get in touch. Also, Jon brings up two good points within his
> posting. number one is that rebel soldiers can be created with the grey caps
> that are included in rock raiders and adventurers amazon playsets, and number
> two is that setting your display in a period after the civil war may help a
> builder use their existing collection more efficiently. In an earlier
> correspondance that I sent to David Little a while back, I suggested that he
> might combine his western and adventurers playsets into a single display that
> would be set in a place where the architecture is circa the cicil war but
> the "current" era is more modernized. He seemed to recieve the idea well. I
> can't wait to see what he and Jon come up with next.
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[notice "follow-up"]
In lugnet.western, Jon Furman writes:
>
> In thinking about the future of wild west possibilities,
> especially when combining WW with adventurers,
> the possibilities really are cool.
> The two time periods are the closest together of all the sets.
I've done this myself.
I've got several WW figs that were originally Adv.,
and vice-versa.
[snip]
> Thinking ahead even further, you could set the time for the 1920's,
> even 30's, and do a Chicago gangster theme.
> ... Oh well, we would need a Tommy gun for the minifigs.
[expression type="smirk"]
Do tell... Why, yes, now that you ask,
I *have* made a tommy-gun for my minifigs.
[/expression]
Take a 2x2 round tile, a 1x1 plate w/ "vertical" clip,
and a rifle. Clip the 1x1 "vert." to the barrel of the rifle
just in front of the receiver (i.e., as far back as possible
against the rectangular part of the rifle),
and then attach the 2x2 tile to the 1x1 "vert.".
Franklin
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In lugnet.western, Damien Nesbit writes:
> I just recieved an email from Jon Furman that included jpegs of his
> homemade nubian minifigs. They are really the motts and anyone who has
> followed this conversation that has not requested to recieve them from him
> really should get in touch. Also, Jon brings up two good points within his
> posting. number one is that rebel soldiers can be created with the grey caps
> that are included in rock raiders and adventurers amazon playsets, and number
> two is that setting your display in a period after the civil war may help a
> builder use their existing collection more efficiently. In an earlier
> correspondance that I sent to David Little a while back, I suggested that he
> might combine his western and adventurers playsets into a single display that
> would be set in a place where the architecture is circa the cicil war but
> the "current" era is more modernized. He seemed to recieve the idea well. I
> can't wait to see what he and Jon come up with next.
I was wondering has anyone seen the rock raiders set 1276 in stores anywhere.
I have not been able to find them in the stores here. I just thought that it
would be a lot less costly to buy a bunch of 1276 than the whole minifig pack
to get the grey kepi. I haven't even seen it at any online shops that I have
been to. I really could use them for my confederates.
I have also been experimenting with modifing current figures. I have finally
found a great way to get the paint off your figures without scratching or
dulling the brick in anyway. I got this from an old friend who said that he
had used pine sol to get paint off of his model trains. Well I tried it! I
soaked a timmy torso in pine sol for 24 hours and then took it out and scrubed
it with an old tooth brush. Let me tell you the paint came right off. It
still has its shine and no scratches like I said. I recommend that you try it
on a timmy or some other fig you would like to experiment on. Now I am to the
point of painting. I have been told the best way is to clean it in dish soap
and water first to get off any oil. Then to put on a primer coat then use the
disired paint. Does anyone have anyother recommendations for me. What is the
best was to get details such as buttons and shirt lines without making it look
like a mess. What paints do you recommend?
I thank you for the help.
Soon I shall have my confederate army with officers and men in uniforms.
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> I was wondering has anyone seen the rock raiders set 1276 in stores anywhere.
They're in Japan, attached to candy.
Alan
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David Little wrote:
> I was wondering has anyone seen the rock raiders set 1276 in stores anywhere.
> I have not been able to find them in the stores here. I just thought that it
> would be a lot less costly to buy a bunch of 1276 than the whole minifig pack
> to get the grey kepi. I haven't even seen it at any online shops that I have
> been to. I really could use them for my confederates.
I wanted to point out that the kepi is now available in brown now in the
new Adventurers series. Cheapest set with it is the Research Glider (I
think the set number is 5921).
See this post for some info about it:
http://www.lugnet.com/adventurers/?n=881
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com (business only please)
Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com
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Jonathan Little wrote:
> In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
>
> > About lego not doing civil war sets, I would not rule it out. Remember
> > Playmobil is a european company and they do american civil war figures. Lego
> > is a very different company from Playmobil in some cases, but I think that
> > them being in europe is not the deturing factor. If anything keeps them from
> > doing a civil war theme I think that it will be the fact that they don't want
> > to be a war toy.
> > David
>
> I'm confused. There's all this talk about how Lego won't do a Civil war
> theme, because it's American and Lego is European. The thing is, the whole
> western theme is American, in the first place. The whole cowboys and indians
> (or Native AMERICANS) thing is from US history. The blue-clad soldiers are
> wearing uniforms of the US army, circa late 19th century. If Lego never does
> a Civil war theme, I don't see how it would have anything to do with the
> fact that Lego is a European company.
Hmmm, I wonder if (to get this back "on topic" for .starwars) if TLG can't acquire
a license to "F Troop"...or maybe to "Glory" (but then they'd have to handle race
in minifigs, wouldn't they?). Idle speculation, and naturally it's got zero
chance of happening--about as much as seeing them acquire the rights to "Hogan's
Heroes" or something.
<historian>
I agree with Jonathan and David that LEGO being European wouldn't stop them from
doing a Civil War theme. In fact, their being European makes it *much* more
likely--a US-based company might never have tackled the "Wild West" theme, because
that's an ugly and nearly genocidal episode in US history. They're separated from
it, so they can handle it and avoid some of the accusations that might be leveled
against a US-based and US-owned company by the victims of US territorial policy.
Besides, the Europeans seem to love those cowboy-type westerns--especially the
Italians--and TLG was careful not to mix the Wild West Soldier and Indians
subthemes the way that Pirates and Imperial Guards (or even Pirates and
Islanders--but note, not Imperial Guards and Islanders) were mixed adversarially.
The relationship between the themes is left to the builder.
That said, the US Civil War is a different case; it was really the first modern
mass war (despite British and French insistence that Napoleon and Crimea somehow
were) and you can't help but make those blue and grey minifigs adversaries. The
war itself raised all sorts of nasty issues that presage the bloody twentieth
century, and those could rear their head in any LEGO rendering of the conflict.
However, most non-academics have purged the uglier images of the war's excesses
from their mental images or else feel somehow disconnected from the war itself
(Southern Culture Association and the SC Flag Controversy perhaps excepted). I
know a lot of re-enactors who happily glamorize the war, even its darkest moments
and awful exigencies, and that's the image sold overseas. I could see TLG
possibly doing it, even given their anti-war-toy stance, because it's a popular
subject and people both inside and outside the US don't connect it with the same
kinds of evil that memories of WWI and WWII conjure. Now, whether evil (or Evil)
existed on either side in the War of Northern Aggression is matter for .debate,
but I personally don't see anything wrong with little grey soldiers.
The thing that makes me doubt that TLG would produce such a theme is because in
the past (no .pun intended) they've shied away from rendering competing historical
groups together in an antagonistic way--for example, red and blue Imperial Guards
were never faced off against one another in the theme, IIRC--you clearly knew the
Pirates were the outlaws and the "heavies." Even in Castle, there's generally the
hint that the "bad guys" are chaotic forces of lawlessness. There's no such exit
with the two major parties to the US Civil War; both represent extremely high
levels of organization in Western nation-states, and even today you can't locate a
"villain" despite the moral issue of slavery for the Confederacy and illegal
impressment of immigrants (usually Irish) for the Union.[1]
</historian>
That stream-of-consciousness rant aside, I'd still love to see a Civil War theme.
On the balance sheet, I feel like it would be a 50-50 likelihood. I do think they
would at least consider it and seriously explore the possibility within the
company. This is all the more likely considering Playmobil's success with their
offerings.
Just my fifth-of-a-dime,
Lindsay
[1] Star Wars and Space themes are exempt--I consider these to be fictional enough
that the desired distance from objectionable subject matter is attained.
FUT...ummm, .western? Maybe we need a lugnet.on-topic.debate group? ;)
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> I do!!!
> Cool...
> An Abraham Limcoln minifig...
> Black slaves...
>
> Black?
> There's a problem here.
> How would TLC deal with the issues of racism, slaves, etc.?
> Up till now, there weren't any black-white-minorities issues, since all
> minifigs were yellow. (Chinese, maybe? :-)
> I remember some comments (can't remember who, though) about the fact that TLC
> avoided racesim issues by not giving the minifigs a race at all.
> So how would they make slaves, or slavers, without changing the minifigs • faces?
>
> Hmmm...
That is where TLC will run into a problem. All minifigs are yellow so that
any child, of any race can relate to them. no other toy on the market is as
neutral as lego. for example the are 4 diffrent types of the same barbie doll-
a white one, an african american one, a latin one, and an asian one.
If TLC were to make civil war lego sets with black slaves there would be so
much outrage from from the african american community, they would have to
discontinue the sets instantly. I think that the closest we came, and are
going to come to civil war lego sets are the wild west sets. However if they
were to make civil war sets with slaves I think that TLC would make the slaves
with yellow faces just like every other minifig, just to keep its neutrality.
-Rich
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> -Shiri
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In lugnet.western, Richard Manzo writes:
>
>
>
>
> > I do!!!
> > Cool...
> > An Abraham Limcoln minifig...
> > Black slaves...
> >
> > Black?
> > There's a problem here.
> > How would TLC deal with the issues of racism, slaves, etc.?
> > Up till now, there weren't any black-white-minorities issues, since all
> > minifigs were yellow. (Chinese, maybe? :-)
> > I remember some comments (can't remember who, though) about the fact that TLC
> > avoided racesim issues by not giving the minifigs a race at all.
> > So how would they make slaves, or slavers, without changing the minifigs • faces?
> >
> > Hmmm...
>
> That is where TLC will run into a problem. All minifigs are yellow so that
> any child, of any race can relate to them. no other toy on the market is as
> neutral as lego. for example the are 4 diffrent types of the same barbie doll-
> a white one, an african american one, a latin one, and an asian one.
I agree. TLC were definitely either real smart to avoid the issue, or just so
stupid that they didn't even think about it. (Well... that's a bit far-
fetched... :-)
> If TLC were to make civil war lego sets with black slaves there would be so
> much outrage from from the african american community, they would have to
> discontinue the sets instantly. I think that the closest we came, and are
> going to come to civil war lego sets are the wild west sets.
I don't know about that - after all, it IS part of the US history. They could
show both sides of the issue - slaves in the south, free in the north, etc. to
be "fair".
> However if they
> were to make civil war sets with slaves I think that TLC would make the slaves
> with yellow faces just like every other minifig, just to keep its neutrality.
Didn't think of that! Sounds good to me...
-Shiri
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In lugnet.western, Shiri Dori writes:
> > However if they
> > were to make civil war sets with slaves I think that TLC would make the • slaves
> > with yellow faces just like every other minifig, just to keep its neutrality.
I never heard that TLC only had yellow figs to stay away from race issues. If
so fine. But they shouldn't stay away from the Civil War just because of
slavery or race issues. I mean this is part of our history. What a great way
to put interest in our kids about something as important as this. Remember
those who forget history are doomed to repeat it again. I don't think that you
should avoid doing something cause you are scared what people will think. You
just have to use tact. You don't HAVE TO put minifigs in chains for cryin out
loud.
Are we so clouded that we forgot what the Civil War was really about. I don't
see how race is even an issue. If lego wants to use only yellow figs to be
neutral fine. Then just use tact on how you display the sets. They showed
great skill in that department in the native american sets.
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> In lugnet.western, Shiri Dori writes:
>
> > > However if they
> > > were to make civil war sets with slaves I think that TLC would make the • slaves
> > > with yellow faces just like every other minifig, just to keep its • neutrality.
> >
>
> I never heard that TLC only had yellow figs to stay away from race issues. If
> so fine. But they shouldn't stay away from the Civil War just because of
> slavery or race issues. I mean this is part of our history. What a great way
> to put interest in our kids about something as important as this. Remember
> those who forget history are doomed to repeat it again. I don't think that • you
> should avoid doing something cause you are scared what people will think. You
> just have to use tact. You don't HAVE TO put minifigs in chains for cryin out
> loud.
> Are we so clouded that we forgot what the Civil War was really about. I don't
> see how race is even an issue. If lego wants to use only yellow figs to be
> neutral fine. Then just use tact on how you display the sets. They showed
> great skill in that department in the native american sets.
>
> David
I also think that civil war lego is a good idea, but I dont think that they
should have slaves in the sets. The civil war should was not just over slavery
it was also over states rights, and to this day some people in the south still
hold a grudge agenst northeners. The sets would cause too much controversy and
I dont think TLC wants that. However imagine a Grant and Lee minifigs, That
would be awesome!
-Rich
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>
> I also think that civil war lego is a good idea, but I dont think that they
> should have slaves in the sets. The civil war should was not just over slavery
> it was also over states rights, and to this day some people in the south still
> hold a grudge agenst northeners. The sets would cause too much controversy and
> I dont think TLC wants that. However imagine a Grant and Lee minifigs, That
> would be awesome!
>
> -Rich
I agree I don't think that they should have slaves in the sets. I don't even
think that you have to go so far as making Grant, Lee, and Lincoln minifigs.
If you keep races neutral then you should keep names and faces neutral too. Its
about putting the interest into our childern to ask about the Civil War. Let
the parents teach thier kids about the details. Just give us the tools to
spark thier interest.
David
Pitty those who forget history for they are doomed to repeat it.
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Just give us the tools to
> spark thier interest.
>
> David
> Pitty those who forget history for they are doomed to repeat it.
Exactly right its up to the parents. And I totally agree with your final
sentance there are so many kids who have no idea of their history and the
history of their country.
-Rich
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In lugnet.western, Rich Manzo writes:
> Just give us the tools to
> > spark thier interest.
> >
> > David
> > Pitty those who forget history for they are doomed to repeat it.
>
> Exactly right its up to the parents. And I totally agree with your final
> sentance there are so many kids who have no idea of their history and the
> history of their country.
>
> -Rich
What sets would you like to see?
1.I think that Jonathan's idea about the Iron Clads is great.
2.A huge earth and wood fort would be great too.
3.A camp set
4.What about a cool bridge that both sides could be trying win.
What do you think?
I know you probably got some ideas too Rich
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> In lugnet.western, Rich Manzo writes:
> > Just give us the tools to
> > > spark thier interest.
> > >
> > > David
> > > Pitty those who forget history for they are doomed to repeat it.
> >
> > Exactly right its up to the parents. And I totally agree with your final
> > sentance there are so many kids who have no idea of their history and the
> > history of their country.
> > -Rich
I know this thread has been dead and gone for a while, but
I've been thinking (I know what your thinking,"I can smell the
wood burning"). I have a few ideas.
> What sets would you like to see?
> 1.I think that Jonathan's idea about the Iron Clads is great.
Great Idea!
-Blockade runners
-Southern subs (IE C.S.S. Huntly)
-Torpedo placements (Maybe Farragut?)
> 2.A huge earth and wood fort would be great too.
-But somewhat acurate, With quarters and
sunken gun placements (new Parrot rifle piece?)
> 3.A camp set
-The common soldier should be a big part. Artillery,
Infantry, Cavalry (un-needed in my eyes) and
Sharpshooters
> 4.What about a cool bridge that both sides could be trying win.
-2 words - Battle Playsets.
-Sumter, Gettysburg sets 1-3, Appomattox, Sherman's
march.
>
> What do you think?
> I know you probably got some ideas too Rich
-A plantation house, minus slaves.
-Don't forget Gettysburg Address playset with copy
of speech and portrait of Abe.
As demonstrated by Arctic, all instruction booklets
could have a collage of M. Kunsler prints in the back
and a small blurb about the real item the set depicts,
for an educational edge (InMyOpinion, highly needed
from some of the responses of this thread.)
-John Rudy
> David
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I'm new over here in .western, but I like it...
I'm sure somebody already said "More western town!"
This would be lots of cool, historical facades for buildings with second
stories, architectural details like stringcourse & frieze below the roof, bay
windows, lots of red and green and blue with white trim. Of course those are the
nice town buildings...
I guess what I want is an Old San Francisco line. It's just in my imagination.
(fishing wharf... cannery... earthquake playset...)
Disclaimer: Western on the brain. 1. I'm watching Rio Bravo (it's a Leigh
Brackett thing) 2. I bought Gold City Junction & Fort Legoredo today 3. Reading
"Science Fiction in Old San Francisco" by Sam Moskowitz 4. Bought an Indian
painting by Jules Tavernier... confirmed...
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In lugnet.western, Erik Olson writes:
> I'm new over here in .western, but I like it...
>
> I'm sure somebody already said "More western town!"
>
> This would be lots of cool, historical facades for buildings with second
> stories, architectural details like stringcourse & frieze below the roof, bay
> windows, lots of red and green and blue with white trim.
I can't agree more. There is just so much more left to be done with the
western theme. I hope they bring it back before to long. I still would love
to see a mexican-american based sub theme and a northern mountain man type of
sub theme.
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> In lugnet.western, Shiri Dori writes:
>
> > > However if they
> > > were to make civil war sets with slaves I think that TLC would make the • slaves
> > > with yellow faces just like every other minifig, just to keep its • neutrality.
> >
>
> I never heard that TLC only had yellow figs to stay away from race issues. If
> so fine. But they shouldn't stay away from the Civil War just because of
> slavery or race issues. I mean this is part of our history. What a great way
> to put interest in our kids about something as important as this.
Thinking from a marketing stand-point, The school
history teachers (2-4th grades), not to mention
college professors would grab this stuff right
off the shelves, not to mention AFOL's and adult
and KABOB history buffs.
-John Rudy
-John Rudy
1) K id with A Bunch O f B ricks
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In lugnet.western, Richard Manzo writes:
> > Black slaves...
> >
> > Black?
Who's to say they would need slaves?
The Civil War was more than slavery, the could
just concentrate on the battles and not
the causes. (soap box mode et drifting off topic)
The war was fought over the opression
of the North on the South, which,
technically stated, means the South was fine
in starting a conflict because of the
Declaration of Independence.
(back on topic) I don't see why TLG(C)
would need to confront racial issues.
-John Rudy
P.S. I know I'm opening another, to quote
Brad Justus, "Pandora's Bucket", and I'm proud
of it!!!
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In lugnet.western, John Rudy writes:
> Who's to say they would need slaves?
> The Civil War was more than slavery, the could
> just concentrate on the battles and not
> the causes. (soap box mode et drifting off topic)
> The war was fought over the opression
> of the North on the South, which,
> technically stated, means the South was fine
> in starting a conflict because of the
> Declaration of Independence.
> (back on topic) I don't see why TLG(C)
> would need to confront racial issues.
Regardless of what the Civil War *was* about, a lot of the current study
and, more importantly, social relevance *is* about slavery. If Lego were
making Civil War sets 135 years ago, maybe they wouldn't need to represent
slavery. But now, to avoid the subject simply because it's unpleasant or
tricky would be at best insulting.
Besides which, does the worldwide community really care about the U.S. Civil
War? Wild West has adopted a sort of generic cultural appeal which I don't
think the Civil War has achieved.
When is Lego going to produce English Civil War sets? Or how about a
commemorative Zulu uprising line? They've already made pith helmets suitable
for the British regulars...
Dave!
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In lugnet.western, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.western, John Rudy writes:
> > Who's to say they would need slaves?
> > The Civil War was more than slavery, the could
> > just concentrate on the battles and not
> > the causes. (soap box mode et drifting off topic)
> > The war was fought over the opression
> > of the North on the South, which,
> > technically stated, means the South was fine
> > in starting a conflict because of the
> > Declaration of Independence.
> > (back on topic) I don't see why TLG(C)
> > would need to confront racial issues.
>
> Regardless of what the Civil War *was* about, a lot of the current study
> and, more importantly, social relevance *is* about slavery. If Lego were
> making Civil War sets 135 years ago, maybe they wouldn't need to represent
> slavery. But now, to avoid the subject simply because it's unpleasant or
> tricky would be at best insulting.
> Besides which, does the worldwide community really care about the U.S. Civil
> War? Wild West has adopted a sort of generic cultural appeal which I don't
> think the Civil War has achieved.
> When is Lego going to produce English Civil War sets? Or how about a
> commemorative Zulu uprising line? They've already made pith helmets suitable
> for the British regulars...
I see your point - I know that in Israel nobody learns about the U.S. civil
war in schools, especially not in elementary (the age to which LEGO is
directed- 5 to 12) and I think not in High or Jr. High schools either. I
definitely didn't formally learn about it, I only heard about it from various
sources (Little women and other books which happened to tell about it, asking
parents, etc.)
I don't think TLC would release national war themes, and the only
international wars are the two world wars.
I'm pretty sure TLC won't release those themes either. (my opinion only here)
-Shiri
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> I see your point - I know that in Israel nobody learns about the U.S. civil
> war in schools, especially not in elementary (the age to which LEGO is
> directed- 5 to 12) and I think not in High or Jr. High schools either. I
> definitely didn't formally learn about it, I only heard about it from various
> sources (Little women and other books which happened to tell about it, asking
> parents, etc.)
>
> I don't think TLC would release national war themes, and the only
> international wars are the two world wars.
> I'm pretty sure TLC won't release those themes either. (my opinion only here)
>
> -Shiri
Do you think that people overseas would buy US Civil War Sets?
I think they would sell really well in the states. I would love to see Zulu
war Sets too..
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
>
> > I see your point - I know that in Israel nobody learns about the U.S. civil
> > war in schools, especially not in elementary (the age to which LEGO is
> > directed- 5 to 12) and I think not in High or Jr. High schools either. I
> > definitely didn't formally learn about it, I only heard about it from various
> > sources (Little women and other books which happened to tell about it, asking
> > parents, etc.)
> >
> > I don't think TLC would release national war themes, and the only
> > international wars are the two world wars.
> > I'm pretty sure TLC won't release those themes either. (my opinion only here)
> >
> > -Shiri
> Do you think that people overseas would buy US Civil War Sets?
> I think they would sell really well in the states. I would love to see Zulu
> war Sets too..
Well, I don't know.
They might... I mean, I don't think kids would be really interested in the
background behind the scenes - only in the scenes themselves. Especially if
they don't already know the background.
-Shiri
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As far as the *need* for slaves in a American Civil War theme, I don't see
where there is a need for any. Many historians will tell you that the
slavery issue was a very minor point in the entire affair and was only
brought up by Lincoln as a reason to explain the war. I think anybody could
do a very nice job creating an American Civil War theme and leaving the
slaves out.
Secondly: As far as the regionalized themes (i.e. an American Civil War them
that wouldn't sell anywhere else), it wouldn't be the first time that TLC
has released sets to only one country or region. That aside, however, I'd
love to have historical sets for any country. Bring on sets for the French
Revolution!
Someone also mentioned the two World Wars as the only feasible options for
historical war type sets. Even with the World Wars, TLC would run into
problems with regionalization. The different countries had different reasons
for being in each of those wars. I know, the United States was in WWII as
aid to the Allied Forces, but they were also focused on attacking Japan.
Every country has that side.
Anyway . . . Just my $.02. I'll get off my soapbox now.
-Jonathan
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In lugnet.western, Jonathan Little writes:
> As far as the *need* for slaves in a American Civil War theme, I don't see
> where there is a need for any. Many historians will tell you that the
> slavery issue was a very minor point in the entire affair and was only
> brought up by Lincoln as a reason to explain the war.
Don't forget to anger the south, the slaves
there were posetions. (SP?) Slavery and the
ultimate freeing of the slaves were just minor
downfalls of the south. I encourage anyone
who doesn't support the lego/Civil war issue
because of racial issues to sit down with
one of the millions of internationally
published books on the subject and read
about the contriuting factors of the war.
-John Rudy
Member, Onondaga County Civil War
Roundtable, Syracuse, New York, USA
> I think anybody could
> do a very nice job creating an American Civil War theme and leaving the
> slaves out.
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In lugnet.western, John Rudy and others write:
> > As far as the *need* for slaves in a American Civil War theme, I don't see
> > where there is a need for any. Many historians will tell you that the
> > slavery issue was a very minor point in the entire affair and was only
> > brought up by Lincoln as a reason to explain the war.
>
> Don't forget to anger the south, the slaves
> there were possessions. (SP?) Slavery and the
> ultimate freeing of the slaves were just minor
> downfalls of the south. I encourage anyone
> who doesn't support the lego/Civil war issue
> because of racial issues to sit down with
> one of the millions of internationally
> published books on the subject and read
> about the contriuting factors of the war.
Maybe one night when my insomnia's acting up! 8^)
The U.S. is a culture which, idiotic though it be, recently castigated a
public figure for using "niggardly" in a speech! Does anyone seriously
believe there wouldn't be an almighty uproar if slaves weren't *somehow*
represented in a Civil War Lego series? Or at least if their absence weren't
addressed in some way? That, I think, and the resultant effect on market
success, would be a deciding factor in the use or non-use of the Civil War as
a theme.
Someone elsewhere in this thread observed that slaves featured heavily in
the pirate industry but are absent from Lego Pirates. True enough, but I
don't recall seeing the Lego Pirates Sugar Cargo set, either, so the exclusion
of any one brand of Pirate's "cargo" doesn't necessarily signify a deliberate
overlooking of slavery as an issue in the theme.
In addition, slavery is ingrained on today's popular consciousness (again,
regardless of its "true" place to Civil War historians) as a part of the cause
of the War. Until some mass re-education occurs by which everyone can be
brought into line with historians' understanding of the period, it is this
perception with which Lego would have to contend in launching a Civil War
theme.
Dave!
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Dave Schuler wrote:
> Someone elsewhere in this thread observed that slaves featured heavily in
> the pirate industry but are absent from Lego Pirates. True enough, but I
> don't recall seeing the Lego Pirates Sugar Cargo set, either, so the exclusion
> of any one brand of Pirate's "cargo" doesn't necessarily signify a deliberate
> overlooking of slavery as an issue in the theme.
The reason you don't see slaves in the pirate theme is that slaves
really aren't part of the romanticized pirate genre. This is also the
reason I doubt we will see a Civil War theme, or any other real war
theme. They haven't been romanticized. The historical themes we have
seen have all been romanticized (castle (including ninja), pirates, wild
west, adventurers).
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com (business only please)
Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com
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In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
> Dave Schuler wrote:
> > Someone elsewhere in this thread observed that slaves featured heavily in
> > the pirate industry but are absent from Lego Pirates. True enough, but I
> > don't recall seeing the Lego Pirates Sugar Cargo set, either, so the • exclusion
> > of any one brand of Pirate's "cargo" doesn't necessarily signify a • deliberate
> > overlooking of slavery as an issue in the theme.
>
> The reason you don't see slaves in the pirate theme is that slaves
> really aren't part of the romanticized pirate genre. This is also the
> reason I doubt we will see a Civil War theme, or any other real war
> theme. They haven't been romanticized. The historical themes we have
> seen have all been romanticized (castle (including ninja), pirates, wild
> west, adventurers).
>
> --
> Frank Filz
I would disagree with your thoughts on the Civil War not being romanticized or
any other war for that matter. I mean just watch Gettysburgh they romanticize
the dickens out of Pickets charge. How is that any different from how castle
has been romanticized?
David
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> I would disagree with your thoughts on the Civil War not being romanticized or
> any other war for that matter. I mean just watch Gettysburgh they romanticize
> the dickens out of Pickets charge. How is that any different from how castle
> has been romanticized?
>
> David
If TLC makes Civil war lego sets its a lose/lose situation. If the dont put
slaves in the sets they they will be blasted for not dipictiing an inportant
part of the civil war. If they do put slaves in the sets the will be blasted
for making the only black minifigs slaves. Its a tough issus for TLC and I
think that it is in their best interest to avoid it.
-Rich
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In lugnet.western, Rich Manzo writes:
>
> > I would disagree with your thoughts on the Civil War not being romanticized • or
> > any other war for that matter. I mean just watch Gettysburgh they • romanticize
> > the dickens out of Pickets charge. How is that any different from how castle
> > has been romanticized?
> >
> > David
>
> If TLC makes Civil war lego sets its a lose/lose situation. If the dont put
> slaves in the sets they they will be blasted for not dipictiing an inportant
> part of the civil war. If they do put slaves in the sets the will be blasted
> for making the only black minifigs slaves. Its a tough issus for TLC and I
> think that it is in their best interest to avoid it.
>
> -Rich
Valid points. I agree that they will probably not make a Civil War theme
(which I hate to say). I still think that there is a way to do it tactfully
and respectfully, tho. Like it was ealier said, you don't have to put slaves
on a battlefield. I think there would be too much interest in this theme to
just give up on it.
David
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> > If TLC makes Civil war lego sets its a lose/lose situation. If the dont put
> > slaves in the sets they they will be blasted for not dipictiing an inportant
> > part of the civil war. If they do put slaves in the sets the will be blasted
> > for making the only black minifigs slaves. Its a tough issus for TLC and I
> > think that it is in their best interest to avoid it.
> >
> > -Rich
> Valid points. I agree that they will probably not make a Civil War theme
> (which I hate to say). I still think that there is a way to do it tactfully
> and respectfully, tho. Like it was ealier said, you don't have to put slaves
> on a battlefield. I think there would be too much interest in this theme to
> just give up on it.
>
> David
Although I do not believe the civl war is a good war to choose, I dont want
to give up a war theme either. I believe that if lego was to make a war theme
they should make a fictional war, because no matter which war they choose,
every war has feelings attached to them. No matter if it was blacks during the
civil war, or the British during the Revolutionary war.
Just like every other lego theme TLC should base everything on fiction
not on anything real. Sure some themes have been real, like pirates, but there
was never a "Captain Red Beard" or a Governor Broadside". So I think that you
can have a war but just dont make specific characters or specific wars. That
can do nothing but cause trouble.
-Rich
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If they do put slaves in the sets the will be blasted
> > for making the only black minifigs slaves.
What about the Union army units that were blacks? Sorry, I don't remember
numbers of units, but I know some boston (mass) units were all blacks.
Also, realize that the American Civil War was about a heck of a lot more than
Slavery...
James Powell
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In lugnet.western, James Powell writes:
> If they do put slaves in the sets the will be blasted
> > > for making the only black minifigs slaves.
>
> What about the Union army units that were blacks? Sorry, I don't remember
> numbers of units, but I know some boston (mass) units were all blacks.
>
> Also, realize that the American Civil War was about a heck of a lot more than
> Slavery...
Sure it was. It was a war a long time in coming and the slavery issue that
was the match that sparked the fire. It was also a war about states rights
ETC. but my point was that if you dont put slaves in the sets TLC will have
trouble, and if you do put slaves in TLC will have trouble. TLC cannot win on
this issue, so they should just avoid the civil war and pick a fictional one.
-Rich
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David Little wrote in message ...
> In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
> > Dave Schuler wrote:
> > > Someone elsewhere in this thread observed that slaves featured heavily • in
> > > the pirate industry but are absent from Lego Pirates. True enough, but • I
> > > don't recall seeing the Lego Pirates Sugar Cargo set, either, so the • exclusion
> > > of any one brand of Pirate's "cargo" doesn't necessarily signify a • deliberate
> > > overlooking of slavery as an issue in the theme.
> >
> > The reason you don't see slaves in the pirate theme is that slaves
> > really aren't part of the romanticized pirate genre. This is also the
> > reason I doubt we will see a Civil War theme, or any other real war
> > theme. They haven't been romanticized. The historical themes we have
> > seen have all been romanticized (castle (including ninja), pirates, wild
> > west, adventurers).
> >
> > --
> > Frank Filz
>
> I would disagree with your thoughts on the Civil War not being romanticized • or
> any other war for that matter. I mean just watch Gettysburgh they • romanticize
> the dickens out of Pickets charge. How is that any different from how • castle
> has been romanticized?
I have to admit to not having seen any of the Civil War movies (other than
Gone With The Wind). I still say that the Civil War has not been
romanticized to the same degree that wild west, pirates, castle, and
adventurers are. Look at the whole toy market. How many castle toys are
there? How many pirate toys? How many wild west toys? I don't recall seeing
many Civil War toys, though there is an abundance generic modern war toys.
TLC has also shied away from depiction of conflicts that people might be
sensitive about (notice that wild west shows no conflict between the whites
and the Indians, the conflict depicted is either cavalry/sheriff against the
outlaws, or between Indians). There is also no interaction between the ninja
and the rest of the castle theme.
Frank
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In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
[snip]
> There is also no interaction between the ninja
> and the rest of the castle theme.
Why should there be any interaction between ninja and other castle sets? One
is in Japan, the rest is in Europe! How would they meet? (Where would they
meet? Halfway thru? In Pakistan? :-)
If anything, I'd think interaction between Fright Knight and Royals. (In fact,
I'm planning a story-line about that.)
-Shiri
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Shiri <shirid@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws FnL6up.CGL@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
> [snip]
>
> > There is also no interaction between the ninja
> > and the rest of the castle theme.
>
> Why should there be any interaction between ninja and other castle sets? • One
> is in Japan, the rest is in Europe! How would they meet? (Where would they
> meet? Halfway thru? In Pakistan? :-)
> If anything, I'd think interaction between Fright Knight and Royals. (In • fact,
> I'm planning a story-line about that.)
>
> -Shiri
You've got a reasonable point there, but what I think the other guy meant
was that
Ninja actually should've been a theme of its own.
IMHO Ninja just isn't Castle. It's Ninja. It might indeed be the Japanese
equivalent
of European castles, but I completely agree it totally doesn't fit in with
Castle as a theme.
--
Arjan Brugman
-
abrugman@casema.net
Arjan.Brugman@philips.com
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In lugnet.western, Arjan Brugman writes:
> Shiri <shirid@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws FnL6up.CGL@lugnet.com...
> > In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
> > [snip]
> >
> > > There is also no interaction between the ninja
> > > and the rest of the castle theme.
> >
> > Why should there be any interaction between ninja and other castle sets? • One
> > is in Japan, the rest is in Europe! How would they meet? (Where would they
> > meet? Halfway thru? In Pakistan? :-)
> > If anything, I'd think interaction between Fright Knight and Royals. (In • fact,
> > I'm planning a story-line about that.)
> >
> > -Shiri
>
> You've got a reasonable point there, but what I think the other guy meant
> was that
> Ninja actually should've been a theme of its own.
Actually, I think Frank was just trying to make a point about conflicts - I
was just picking on one certain sentence. See it in the context:
Frank wrote the following anecdote:
> > > TLC has also shied away from depiction of conflicts that people might be
> > > sensitive about (notice that wild west shows no conflict between the whites
> > > and the Indians, the conflict depicted is either cavalry/sheriff against the
> > > outlaws, or between Indians). There is also no interaction between the ninja
> > > and the rest of the castle theme.
So you see he was actually saying that TLC was avoiding conflicts, I just
found it funny that Ninjas and Castles could meet :-)
-Shiri
>
> IMHO Ninja just isn't Castle. It's Ninja. It might indeed be the Japanese
> equivalent
> of European castles, but I completely agree it totally doesn't fit in with
> Castle as a theme.
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Shiri <shirid@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws Fnoq0K.2Bu@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.western, Arjan Brugman writes:
> > Shiri <shirid@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws • FnL6up.CGL@lugnet.com...
> > > In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > > There is also no interaction between the ninja
> > > > and the rest of the castle theme.
> > >
> > > Why should there be any interaction between ninja and other castle • sets?
> > One
> > > is in Japan, the rest is in Europe! How would they meet? (Where would • they
> > > meet? Halfway thru? In Pakistan? :-)
> > > If anything, I'd think interaction between Fright Knight and Royals. • (In
> > fact,
> > > I'm planning a story-line about that.)
> > >
> > > -Shiri
> >
> > You've got a reasonable point there, but what I think the other guy meant
> > was that
> > Ninja actually should've been a theme of its own.
>
> Actually, I think Frank was just trying to make a point about conflicts - • I
> was just picking on one certain sentence. See it in the context:
> Frank wrote the following anecdote:
>
> > > > TLC has also shied away from depiction of conflicts that people might • be
> > > > sensitive about (notice that wild west shows no conflict between the • whites
> > > > and the Indians, the conflict depicted is either cavalry/sheriff • against the
> > > > outlaws, or between Indians). There is also no interaction between the • ninja
> > > > and the rest of the castle theme.
>
> So you see he was actually saying that TLC was avoiding conflicts, I just
> found it funny that Ninjas and Castles could meet :-)
>
> -Shiri
>
>
>
>
> >
> > IMHO Ninja just isn't Castle. It's Ninja. It might indeed be the Japanese
> > equivalent
> > of European castles, but I completely agree it totally doesn't fit in • with
> > Castle as a theme.
Now that I read the anecdote, I understand what you were saying.
I kinda misunderstood that one sentence you quoted...
Sorry! :o)
--
Arjan Brugman
-
abrugman@casema.net
Arjan.Brugman@philips.com
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In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
> I have to admit to not having seen any of the Civil War movies (other than
> Gone With The Wind). I still say that the Civil War has not been
> romanticized to the same degree that wild west, pirates, castle, and
> adventurers are. Look at the whole toy market. How many castle toys are
> there? How many pirate toys? How many wild west toys? I don't recall seeing
> many Civil War toys, though there is an abundance generic modern war toys.
I had one set of plastic Civil War soldiers when I was about 4, but I
haven't seen many other toys. However, this points out an interesting market
trend that addresses a point made elsewhere on this thread:
Someone suggested that a Civil War theme would be almost guaranteed to do
well, but the current lack of Civil War toys suggests to me that at least some
marketing researchers have judged it not to be a toy line worth pursuing at
this time.
Dave!
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In lugnet.western, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.western, Frank Filz writes:
>
> > I have to admit to not having seen any of the Civil War movies (other than
> > Gone With The Wind). I still say that the Civil War has not been
> > romanticized to the same degree that wild west, pirates, castle, and
> > adventurers are. Look at the whole toy market. How many castle toys are
> > there? How many pirate toys? How many wild west toys? I don't recall seeing
> > many Civil War toys, though there is an abundance generic modern war toys.
>
> I had one set of plastic Civil War soldiers when I was about 4, but I
> haven't seen many other toys. However, this points out an interesting market
> trend that addresses a point made elsewhere on this thread:
> Someone suggested that a Civil War theme would be almost guaranteed to do
> well, but the current lack of Civil War toys suggests to me that at least some
> marketing researchers have judged it not to be a toy line worth pursuing at
> this time.
>
> Dave!
I remember small plastic Civil War soldiers when I was younger as well. I do
know that <a
href="http://195.63.217.70/cgi-bin/playmobil.storefront/1816931354/Catalog/1012
">Playmobil</a> currently has Civil War sets out now. Check it out. I think
that they have been doing Civil War for 20 years now if I remember right.
David
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In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
> I remember small plastic Civil War soldiers when I was younger as well. I do
> know that <a
> href="http://195.63.217.70/cgi- • bin/playmobil.storefront/1816931354/Catalog/1012
> ">Playmobil</a> currently has Civil War sets out now. Check it out. I think
> that they have been doing Civil War for 20 years now if I remember right.
Well, now I don't know what to think, especially since Playmobil and Lego
have run parallel product lines so often in the past!
Dave!
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In lugnet.western, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.western, David Little writes:
>
> > I remember small plastic Civil War soldiers when I was younger as well. I do
> > know that <a
> > href="http://195.63.217.70/cgi- • bin/playmobil.storefront/1816931354/Catalog/1012
> > ">Playmobil</a> currently has Civil War sets out now. Check it out. I think
> > that they have been doing Civil War for 20 years now if I remember right.
>
> Well, now I don't know what to think, especially since Playmobil and Lego
> have run parallel product lines so often in the past!
>
> Dave!
I think Playmobil shows that the Civil War can be done. Not only that, but
that it can be done tastefully with out causing hard feelings to anyone. You
don't have to put people in chains. It doesn't have to have every detail
of the war. It's just a toy.
David
David
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In lugnet.western, Dave Schuler writes:
> The U.S. is a culture which, idiotic though it be, recently castigated a
> public figure for using "niggardly" in a speech! Does anyone seriously
> believe there wouldn't be an almighty uproar if slaves weren't *somehow*
> represented in a Civil War Lego series? Or at least if their absence weren't
> addressed in some way? That, I think, and the resultant effect on market
> success, would be a deciding factor in the use or non-use of the Civil War as
> a theme.
Personally, it seems to me that there would be an uproar if slaves *were*
included in a Civil War theme. I remember a lot of very heated debates in an
otherwise calm high school American History class when we discussed the
topic of slavery and the American Civil War. It was like deja vu four years
later when I encountered it in college. Slavery is still a very touchy
subject here, in the United States, one-hundred years after the fact.
-Jonathan
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In lugnet.western, Jonathan Little writes:
> As far as the *need* for slaves in a American Civil War theme, I don't see
> where there is a need for any. Many historians will tell you that the
> slavery issue was a very minor point in the entire affair and was only
> brought up by Lincoln as a reason to explain the war. I think anybody could
> do a very nice job creating an American Civil War theme and leaving the
> slaves out.
Well, I've never learned of the causes/effects of the U.S. Civil war, so I
can't disagree. If the slaves were indeed just an excuse, then certainly TLC
could drop them. If they wanted to, that is. (1)
> Secondly: As far as the regionalized themes (i.e. an American Civil War them
> that wouldn't sell anywhere else), it wouldn't be the first time that TLC
> has released sets to only one country or region. That aside, however, I'd
> love to have historical sets for any country. Bring on sets for the French
> Revolution!
Oooh! Guillotines and all the reign of terror. Cool! (This doesn't fit in
Western, though...)
I'd like the Israeli Six-day war, with three sub-themes, one for each front:
The Sinai desert, The Golan heights, and Jerusalem... We could have
parachutists, Fighters, the Wailing wall...
(I can dream on, though. TLC barely *brings* sets in Israel, let alone make
them *only* for Israel...)
> Someone also mentioned the two World Wars as the only feasible options for
> historical war type sets. Even with the World Wars, TLC would run into
> problems with regionalization. The different countries had different reasons
> for being in each of those wars. I know, the United States was in WWII as
> aid to the Allied Forces, but they were also focused on attacking Japan.
> Every country has that side.
Yeah, I didn't think of that when I suggested the WWs.
-Shiri
(1) Funny - were debating over what to put in a theme that TLC will prolly
never create... :-)
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In lugnet.western, Dave Schuler writes:
> Besides which, does the worldwide community really care about the U.S. Civil
> War? Wild West has adopted a sort of generic cultural appeal which I don't
> think the Civil War has achieved.
Then why not release them U.S. exclusive at least,
I know it would be a big seller in the U.S.
(see http://www.lugnet.com/western/?n=38 )
> When is Lego going to produce English Civil War sets?
What were the imperial's in the pirate line?
> Or how about a
> commemorative Zulu uprising line? They've already made pith helmets suitable
> for the British regulars...
And the Islanders?
-John Rudy
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In lugnet.western, John Rudy writes:
> In lugnet.western, Dave Schuler writes:
> > Besides which, does the worldwide community really care about the U.S. • Civil
> > War? Wild West has adopted a sort of generic cultural appeal which I don't
> > think the Civil War has achieved.
>
> Then why not release them U.S. exclusive at least,
> I know it would be a big seller in the U.S.
> (see http://www.lugnet.com/western/?n=38 )
>
> > When is Lego going to produce English Civil War sets?
> What were the imperial's in the pirate line?
>
> > Or how about a
> > commemorative Zulu uprising line? They've already made pith helmets suitable
> > for the British regulars...
>
> And the Islanders?
>
> -John Rudy
Great points! Besides the fact that during the pirate era was most of the
slave trading and lego avoided that just as they could with the Civil War sets.
David
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