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Hello!
The 6067 "Guarded Inn" is my all time favourite LEGO® set. The first
glance at the picture in the 1986 catalogue was the initial spark of
this love... And I was lucky to get it as a birthay present the same
year.
The Guarded Inn is a legend. But what makes it a legend?
Of course it is well designed model: The fitting choice of colours, the
little details, its originality as the only "civilian" castle set...
But another reason for it to be a legend is its rarity.
In America this set was never regularly available in the shops (because
it is a pub and promotes drinking...?). So it became one of the most
desired sets in America I think. And it was a little cruel of TLC that
it was listed in the Shop-at-Home-catalogue. You saw it, you knew it,
but you couldn't get it as a child depending on parents' purse...
Btw there are many sets that have never been released outside the US:
For example #6071, #6060, #6390 and all the value packs. We Europeans
were not even aware of these sets. When I saw #6060 the first time on
Lugnet I was really shocked: Such a great set! And LEGO kept it back
from me! You could have heared me curse and swear at LEGO :-)
But now I have some of the (castle) US-only sets. And I wouldn't be too
happy if these sets would be re-released. To big was my effort to get
them. If everybody could buy as many of these sets as they wanted the
thrill would be lost.
Consider the pride of !finally! having a Guarded Inn!
Be honest: The parts in the 6067 ain't too great... Some gray wall parts
(more of them are in the bigger castles), black roof parts (available in
service packs), a red maiden hat (there are three sets with it) and some
minifigs. And of course the red tudor wall parts. But I never used them
too often. And I wouldn't use them even if I had more than my three of
them.
Now you can buy as many sets with these red tudor walls as you want.
And? Do you want to build a half timbered house out of these parts? Will
we see thousands of galleries at BrickShelf showing houses with red
tudor wall parts? White tudor wall parts would be better...
Now you can put a newly recieved set in your showcase and say: This is
the long desired Guarded Inn! And? Where had been the thrill getting it?
The Guarded Inn is a legend in America because of its (former) rarity.
In other countries the 6067 is not really a legend but a highly rated
set because of its beauty.
Maybe it will become a new legend as the first LEGO set celebrating a
rebirth. (Every 2000 years a resurrection... But don't let the
resurrection become normality.)
I'd really prefer to see some NEW models with the quality of the Guarded
Inn.
;-)
Jojo
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Hello,
I'm consurring with Jojo's opinion but want to add 2 further cents.
In Germany, specific in the Forum at 1000steine.de, there were much more
criticism of the new "Legends-Line".
Many "collectors" are annoyed, because TLC slapped them in the face by
selling a very popular collector's item; many "architects" are looking
wistful back in time, when they found nice pieces like red tudor walls or
signs in their newest Deal-Bags. TLC has stolen dozens of proud stories and
lucky ways of getting a Guardied Inn - now you can order and you get it, the
charme is not the same. Only a few people in the Forum of 1000steine.de were
really overjoyed.
IMO there would have been a simple way to please all men: Why not renew the
Guarded Inn with some little modifications (maybe an altered sign or
mirrored timbering at the tudor walls)? The collectors would have their
originals, the architects many nice pieces and bricks for building and the
6067 would not lost it's "aura".
To reissue the 6067 as 1:1 copy of the original is creating a PATHETIC
COMEBACK*, but never a LEGEND!!!
I'm anxious, what the "August Surprise" is - which set will lose its magic
charme? Maybe #6071 or #1906? "HA" you may say, but I don't own these sets
and I won't complete my castle collection just by clicking "Order Now" at S@H.
Kind Regards,
René
www.1000steine.de
*and lucrative for TLC - that's the REAL reason for choosing the Guarded Inn!
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you have to realise that most of the AFOL don't want a collectors market. It
drives the price up and encourages speculation on prices. Yes it'd be pretty
cool to see a revised or modified inn to add to the collection, and of
course LEGO are doing it out of a desire to make money (they are after all a
business). I couldn't sit back and watch a product of mine selling for $200
plus on the collectors market, having the knowlage I could knock it out and
make a profit for $25.
I could be considered a collector, I've paid over the odds for american only
Castle sets, and I consider myself very lucky to have had a Guarded Inn in
86. It makes the achivements of people struggling to gain pieces non the
less valid (I was thrilled to get another tavern sign in a bag of bits at a
boot sale) They know -I had all thoses pieces before the 2001 rerelease, and
anyone who they wish to impress will know what they mean.
There are however lots of real lego collectors (or users) who haven't got
the inn or simply could never afford / justify the expenditure, and lots of
children who have never had the pleasure of 'real' (imho) castle sets.
Its a definate step forward dude, that you can't deny
James
"René Hoffmeister" <rene.hoff@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:GErrMv.CHG@lugnet.com...
> Hello, • -----8< snip
> Many "collectors" are annoyed, because TLC slapped them in the face by
> selling a very popular collector's item; many "architects" are looking
> wistful back in time, when they found nice pieces like red tudor walls or
> signs in their newest Deal-Bags. TLC has stolen dozens of proud stories • and
> lucky ways of getting a Guardied Inn - now you can order and you get it, • the
> charme is not the same. Only a few people in the Forum of 1000steine.de • were
> really overjoyed. • -----8< snip
> Kind Regards,
>
> René
> www.1000steine.de
>
> *and lucrative for TLC - that's the REAL reason for choosing the Guarded
Inn!
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Hello James,
> There are however lots of real lego collectors (or users) who haven't got
> the inn or simply could never afford / justify the expenditure, and lots of
> children who have never had the pleasure of 'real' (imho) castle sets.
That's right, but wouldn't it be nice if TLC would sell castle sets LIKE the
Guarded Inn and not THE Guarded Inn? TLC renews the Legends-Sets because the
sets are "leading in design" - if so, why not creating new sets by tradition
of 80's Castle Sets. This would have been a real "July Surprise" or could be
the perfect "2002 Surprise" and THIS would be:
> a definate step forward
Kind Regards
René
www.1000steine.de
PS:
> dude
This is not the word in my dictionary, isn't it?
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OK I wont argue. I would *love* new sets along the design and concepts of
the Guarded Inn. Yes new sets of a modular design and in keeping with the
feel of the mid - late 80's sets is what I dream of. But IF sales of this
set exceed TLC's expectations it sends a clear message to them of what
people want in a set.
Then fingers crossed we'll get a october or november supprise or something
where LEGO say OK then here is a mill, a stable, a medieval farm.
Its a step forward from the offerings of Knights Kingdom.
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In lugnet.castle, James Stacey writes:
> you have to realise that most of the AFOL don't want a collectors market. It
> drives the price up and encourages speculation on prices. Yes it'd be pretty
> cool to see a revised or modified inn to add to the collection, and of
> course LEGO are doing it out of a desire to make money (they are after all a
> business). I couldn't sit back and watch a product of mine selling for $200
> plus on the collectors market, having the knowlage I could knock it out and
> make a profit for $25.
And what about a new set, which will sell for $25 to the children AND to the
collectors who already have the old sets? With a slightly modified set, they
would probably make more money.
> I could be considered a collector, I've paid over the odds for american only
> Castle sets, and I consider myself very lucky to have had a Guarded Inn in
> 86. It makes the achivements of people struggling to gain pieces non the
> less valid (I was thrilled to get another tavern sign in a bag of bits at a
> boot sale) They know -I had all thoses pieces before the 2001 rerelease, and
> anyone who they wish to impress will know what they mean.
I am definitely not a collector, I don't even keep all the boxes or
instructions of my sets, so personally I am quit happy that there will be a
new/old set with interesting red pieces to use.
> There are however lots of real lego collectors (or users) who haven't got
> the inn or simply could never afford / justify the expenditure, and lots of
> children who have never had the pleasure of 'real' (imho) castle sets.
There are also lots of children who don't have a Mindstrom because they
can't afford it.
Does this mean TLC will drop the price to $30, probably not, but what about
the children who never had the pleasure of 'real' Lego?
> Its a definate step forward dude, that you can't deny
I wouldn't say its a step forward, but it is at least a step, lets see where
it will lead.
Also I am not a collector, I can perfectly understand them and I think the
Lego AFOL community wouldn't be the same without those 'maniacs' who try to
get sets, to just put it unopened on there shelf's.
So for the next legend, Lego should modify the set slightly and everybody
would be happy.
Christian
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I wont labour the point cos' we are kinda arguing the same side here
> And what about a new set, which will sell for $25 to the children AND to • the
> collectors who already have the old sets? With a slightly modified set, • they
> would probably make more money.
Its possible, but I havent read a post yet (Not saying there isnt or wont
be) from anyone saying - already got one, dont need any more
> I am definitely not a collector, I don't even keep all the boxes or
> instructions of my sets, so personally I am quit happy that there will be • a
> new/old set with interesting red pieces to use.
OK when I say collector I mean I have collected all the Castle sets. I dont
care about the price of them when I have them in my possession and certainly
wouldn't sell any
> There are also lots of children who don't have a Mindstrom because they
> can't afford it.
> Does this mean TLC will drop the price to $30, probably not, but what • about
> the children who never had the pleasure of 'real' Lego?
Not strictly a fair comparison cos the $200 ish price tag isnt from Lego its
from the Collectors market, The set has about $20 - $25 worth of pieces
ignoring the collectability of individual pieces
> I wouldn't say its a step forward, but it is at least a step, lets see • where
> it will lead.
> Also I am not a collector, I can perfectly understand them and I think the
> Lego AFOL community wouldn't be the same without those 'maniacs' who try • to
> get sets, to just put it unopened on there shelf's.
I'm with you on that one 8)
Lets see where we go next
James
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In lugnet.castle, René Hoffmeister writes:
> Hello,
>
> I'm consurring with Jojo's opinion but want to add 2 further cents.
>
> In Germany, specific in the Forum at 1000steine.de, there were much more
> criticism of the new "Legends-Line".
>
> Many "collectors" are annoyed, because TLC slapped them in the face by
> selling a very popular collector's item; many "architects" are looking
> wistful back in time, when they found nice pieces like red tudor walls or
> signs in their newest Deal-Bags. TLC has stolen dozens of proud stories and
> lucky ways of getting a Guardied Inn - now you can order and you get it, the
> charme is not the same. Only a few people in the Forum of 1000steine.de were
> really overjoyed.
LEGO is not a collector's item, like Beanie Babies or Elvis commemorative
plates. It is a toy, meant to be played with, not sitting MISB in someone's
closet accumulating value. Anything that LEGO does to make a great set more
available is an unqualified good thing, IMO. And if they make a ton of money
off of it, well that's even better. LEGO (or any other company) doesn't do
things out of goodwill. When our interests (neato old sets) and LEGO's
interests (profit) coincide, then good things can happen.
And let's remember who LEGO's real target is: not us, but children. How many
parents do you think were slapping down $200 for an eBay Guarded Inn for
their kid? I think it's a great thing that today's kids will be able to get
their hands on such an excellent set from the old days, that they otherwise
might never had known about.
> IMO there would have been a simple way to please all men: Why not renew the
> Guarded Inn with some little modifications (maybe an altered sign or
> mirrored timbering at the tudor walls)? The collectors would have their
> originals, the architects many nice pieces and bricks for building and the
> 6067 would not lost it's "aura".
>
> To reissue the 6067 as 1:1 copy of the original is creating a PATHETIC
> COMEBACK*, but never a LEGEND!!!
I like to think of it as LEGO making a legend a reality.
-Marc Nelson Jr.
> I'm anxious, what the "August Surprise" is - which set will lose its magic
> charme? Maybe #6071 or #1906? "HA" you may say, but I don't own these sets
> and I won't complete my castle collection just by clicking "Order Now" at S@H.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> René
> www.1000steine.de
>
> *and lucrative for TLC - that's the REAL reason for choosing the Guarded Inn!
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> LEGO is not a collector's item, like Beanie Babies or Elvis commemorative
> plates. It is a toy, meant to be played with, not sitting MISB in someone's
> closet accumulating value. Anything that LEGO does to make a great set more
> available is an unqualified good thing, IMO. And if they make a ton of money
> off of it, well that's even better. LEGO (or any other company) doesn't do
> things out of goodwill. When our interests (neato old sets) and LEGO's
> interests (profit) coincide, then good things can happen.
>
> And let's remember who LEGO's real target is: not us, but children. How many
> parents do you think were slapping down $200 for an eBay Guarded Inn for
> their kid? I think it's a great thing that today's kids will be able to get
> their hands on such an excellent set from the old days, that they otherwise
> might never had known about.
> I like to think of it as LEGO making a legend a reality.
>
> -Marc Nelson Jr.
I beg to differ who they are targeting with this release. If they were
targeting children, then it would be distributed to the retail stores. The
fact that they are only selling on S@H is evidence enough of who there
target really is. Besides, if you were a parent, would you buy a single set
that has no other sets to add onto it? Let's think about this... hummm, I
can buy my children these cool sets with dinasours, that has over 12 other
sets I can purchase to add onto it, or this one $25 set with nothing to go
with it. This is exactly why it is only being offered at S@H. Also, I
would bet that 70% of Lego's purchase market is through the retail division,
not S@H. I am not saying where they make the most $$, but volume of
purchases come through the retail division.
Don't take this personally Marc :-) I am jsut commenting on who the real
market is for this release.
BK>
PS: Lego will make money on this set, but certainly not "Tons" as many
people keep trying to infer.
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In lugnet.castle, Brian Kasprzyk writes:
> > LEGO is not a collector's item, like Beanie Babies or Elvis commemorative
> > plates. It is a toy, meant to be played with, not sitting MISB in someone's
> > closet accumulating value. Anything that LEGO does to make a great set more
> > available is an unqualified good thing, IMO. And if they make a ton of money
> > off of it, well that's even better. LEGO (or any other company) doesn't do
> > things out of goodwill. When our interests (neato old sets) and LEGO's
> > interests (profit) coincide, then good things can happen.
> >
> > And let's remember who LEGO's real target is: not us, but children. How many
> > parents do you think were slapping down $200 for an eBay Guarded Inn for
> > their kid? I think it's a great thing that today's kids will be able to get
> > their hands on such an excellent set from the old days, that they otherwise
> > might never had known about.
>
>
> > I like to think of it as LEGO making a legend a reality.
> >
> > -Marc Nelson Jr.
>
> I beg to differ who they are targeting with this release. If they were
> targeting children, then it would be distributed to the retail stores. The
> fact that they are only selling on S@H is evidence enough of who there
> target really is. Besides, if you were a parent, would you buy a single set
> that has no other sets to add onto it? Let's think about this... hummm, I
> can buy my children these cool sets with dinasours, that has over 12 other
> sets I can purchase to add onto it, or this one $25 set with nothing to go
> with it. This is exactly why it is only being offered at S@H. Also, I
> would bet that 70% of Lego's purchase market is through the retail division,
> not S@H. I am not saying where they make the most $$, but volume of
> purchases come through the retail division.
Oh, yeah, this was definitely targeted at us. I don't think it's a
coincidence that the first set they picked for rerelease was the
highest-rated Castle set in the LUGNET database and one of the more
expensive ones on eBay.
I was just saying that overall, LEGO's focus is children, and that the
rerelease of this set is great for kids who don't know what real LEGO sets
are because they've been drowned in inferior products their whole lives.
I think you're right, that this isn't something that the average parent
would buy for their kid. But there are young budding LEGO nerds out there
who will see this in the next catalog and beg to get it, and it is those
kids that I am happy for.
> Don't take this personally Marc :-) I am jsut commenting on who the real
> market is for this release.
>
> BK>
>
> PS: Lego will make money on this set, but certainly not "Tons" as many
> people keep trying to infer.
They should make a lot more money on this (at least per unit) than the
average set. There were no design or development costs since it was a
rerelease. The packaging is minimal. The only advertising they did was
posting a message on LUGNET. Plus, as this is a S@H only set, all the profit
goes to LEGO and not Toys R Us or anybody else. It won't be enough on it's
own to turn around the recent losses, but it will certainly help.
-Marc Nelson Jr.
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In lugnet.castle, Brian Kasprzyk writes:
> I beg to differ who they are targeting with this release. If they were
> targeting children, then it would be distributed to the retail stores. The
> fact that they are only selling on S@H is evidence enough of who there
> target really is.
I don't think so. See below.
> Besides, if you were a parent, would you buy a single set
> that has no other sets to add onto it? Let's think about this... hummm, I
> can buy my children these cool sets with dinasours, that has over 12 other
> sets I can purchase to add onto it, or this one $25 set with nothing to go
> with it.
True.
> This is exactly why it is only being offered at S@H.
I don't think so. See below.
> Also, I
> would bet that 70% of Lego's purchase market is through the retail division,
> not S@H. I am not saying where they make the most $$, but volume of
> purchases come through the retail division.
While most of the above may be *true*, it is not the *reason* that this set
is being released to S@H and not to retail. The REASON is that S@H is within
Brad's brief, and retail isn't.
Brad's organization cannot force retail to carry things. In fact,
previously, Brad and S@H had to pick and choose from what retail designed,
and that includes service packs (which, remember, are or were available at
retail in Germany). But they had no power to commission new stuff.
It is a HUGE organizational breakthrough that LD can design new sets
(mosaic, the minifig, the dragon, the statue, MyOwnTrain, the Camel, and
more to come I think) and bring old ones back. Be happy that LD has this
charter and has been accomplishing this much. If Hop-Frog can be happy about
this (!!!) so can everyone else. (yes, yes, I wish it happened faster.)
The above statements are *not* speculation. LD IS organised the way it is,
and Hop-Frog IS happy, at least a little. :-) Those are facts.
Now, about collectors. I am glad there are collectors out there. They shake
stuff loose that otherwise would get thrown away or languish in garage
sales. I am mostly a builder, and a designer and retailer in my own right,
but a bit of a collector, so I admit some bias, I do want a viable collector
market so I can buy things.
This hobby is a big tent. Be inclusive.
I am not crying for all the collectors and those that cater to them who are
now upset that LD has made 6075 that much less valuable (although I dispute
the magnitude of the loss), but I hope collectors and those that cater to
them remain part of the hobby and part of the marketplace. What is needed
here is more tolerance and acceptance of the different facets of the hobby.
IMHO.
++Lar
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In lugnet.castle, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Brian Kasprzyk writes:
<snip>
> Now, about collectors. I am glad there are collectors out there. They shake
> stuff loose that otherwise would get thrown away or languish in garage
> sales. I am mostly a builder, and a designer and retailer in my own right,
> but a bit of a collector, so I admit some bias, I do want a viable collector
> market so I can buy things.
>
> This hobby is a big tent. Be inclusive.
>
> I am not crying for all the collectors and those that cater to them who are
> now upset that LD has made 6075 that much less valuable (although I dispute
> the magnitude of the loss), but I hope collectors and those that cater to
> them remain part of the hobby and part of the marketplace. What is needed
> here is more tolerance and acceptance of the different facets of the hobby.
> IMHO.
You and Lindsay both mentioned this, and I want to point out that I agree
with it, although I imagine it certainly didn't look like it. I don't
(intentionally) deride or begrudge collectors and speculators their place in
the market; I think it makes the market better. I just feel very strongly
that speculators have no basis whinging that the commodity they speculate
became readily available, and they lost out. It's part of the deal, live
with it, or don't speculate. It happens when new gold mines get found, it
happens when Lego rereleases old sets.
$0.02 (any takers? It might be 4 cents tomorrow, that's 100% profit!)
James
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In lugnet.castle, James Brown writes:
> You and Lindsay both mentioned this, and I want to point out that I agree
> with it, although I imagine it certainly didn't look like it.
I disagree with that. :-) To me anyway, it DID look like you agreed (in
advance) with what we advanced... (1). It's those other blokes over there we
are arguing with, not you, bub. :-)
> I don't
> (intentionally) deride or begrudge collectors and speculators their place in
> the market; I think it makes the market better. I just feel very strongly
> that speculators have no basis whinging that the commodity they speculate
> became readily available, and they lost out. It's part of the deal, live
> with it, or don't speculate. It happens when new gold mines get found, it
> happens when Lego rereleases old sets.
Right on.
> $0.02 (any takers? It might be 4 cents tomorrow, that's 100% profit!)
Currency speculating again? :-)
1 - Was that clear? It was?!!? Drat. I'll have to reword it. :-)
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Brian Kasprzyk writes:
>
> > I beg to differ who they are targeting with this release. If they were
> > targeting children, then it would be distributed to the retail stores. The
> > fact that they are only selling on S@H is evidence enough of who there
> > target really is.
>
> I don't think so. See below.
>
> > Besides, if you were a parent, would you buy a single set
> > that has no other sets to add onto it? Let's think about this... hummm, I
> > can buy my children these cool sets with dinasours, that has over 12 other
> > sets I can purchase to add onto it, or this one $25 set with nothing to go
> > with it.
>
> True.
>
> > This is exactly why it is only being offered at S@H.
>
> I don't think so. See below.
>
> > Also, I
> > would bet that 70% of Lego's purchase market is through the retail division,
> > not S@H. I am not saying where they make the most $$, but volume of
> > purchases come through the retail division.
>
> While most of the above may be *true*, it is not the *reason* that this set
> is being released to S@H and not to retail. The REASON is that S@H is within
> Brad's brief, and retail isn't.
>
> Brad's organization cannot force retail to carry things. In fact,
> previously, Brad and S@H had to pick and choose from what retail designed,
> and that includes service packs (which, remember, are or were available at
> retail in Germany). But they had no power to commission new stuff.
>
> It is a HUGE organizational breakthrough that LD can design new sets
> (mosaic, the minifig, the dragon, the statue, MyOwnTrain, the Camel, and
> more to come I think) and bring old ones back. Be happy that LD has this
> charter and has been accomplishing this much. If Hop-Frog can be happy about
> this (!!!) so can everyone else. (yes, yes, I wish it happened faster.)
>
> The above statements are *not* speculation. LD IS organised the way it is,
> and Hop-Frog IS happy, at least a little. :-) Those are facts.
Where did you get these *facts* from? If what you say is true, the running
of LEGO is far worse than I thought.
Scott A
>
> Now, about collectors. I am glad there are collectors out there. They shake
> stuff loose that otherwise would get thrown away or languish in garage
> sales. I am mostly a builder, and a designer and retailer in my own right,
> but a bit of a collector, so I admit some bias, I do want a viable collector
> market so I can buy things.
>
> This hobby is a big tent. Be inclusive.
>
> I am not crying for all the collectors and those that cater to them who are
> now upset that LD has made 6075 that much less valuable (although I dispute
> the magnitude of the loss), but I hope collectors and those that cater to
> them remain part of the hobby and part of the marketplace. What is needed
> here is more tolerance and acceptance of the different facets of the hobby.
> IMHO.
>
> ++Lar
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Hello!
> LEGO is not a collector's item, like Beanie Babies or Elvis commemorative plates.
Of course it is! Why do you think would anybody sell $200 to get a
#6067? To complete their collection only. If you want to play you can
build way better MOCs! You don't need a set that costs several hundreds
$$.
> It is a toy, meant to be played with, not sitting MISB in someone's
> closet accumulating value.
I couldn't agree more!
I for myself don't care much about the value. But I like rare sets
though. Simply for "having" them :-)
> And let's remember who LEGO's real target is: not us, but children.
> How many parents do you think were slapping down $200 for an eBay Guarded Inn for their kid?
No need! They can order parts in bulk at S@H and the kid builds his own
Inn. Remember: It's a construction toy ;-)
And: Children ain't the only target of LEGO's marketing strategy any
more. Newadays there are many sets that are constructed for us Adult
Fans of LEGO. And so are the "Legends". I generally appreciate this
development but not at all.
Bye
Jojo
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René Hoffmeister at rene.hoff@gmx.de wrote:
> Many "collectors" are annoyed, because TLC slapped them in the face by
> selling a very popular collector's item; many "architects" are looking
> wistful back in time, when they found nice pieces like red tudor walls or
> signs in their newest Deal-Bags. TLC has stolen dozens of proud stories and
> lucky ways of getting a Guardied Inn - now you can order and you get it, the
> charme is not the same. Only a few people in the Forum of 1000steine.de were
> really overjoyed.
Blah. I couldn't care less if collectors are annoyed. The new sets won't
harm the collectability of old MISB sets. It will only harm the ability of
"collectors" to get the red tudor parts and sell them for obscene amounts of
money. Pardon me if I don't pity them.
This will make things much easier for BUILDERS, for whom I have the utmost
respect... that's what LEGO is, a BUILDING toy. If you want to collect
something, there are some nice Bionicle mask packs on the market that will
keep you busy for awhile.
$.02
~Grand Admiral Muffin Head
--
Mark's Lego(R) Creations
http://www.nwlink.com/~sandlin/lego
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In lugnet.castle, Mark Sandlin writes:
> René Hoffmeister at rene.hoff@gmx.de wrote:
>
> > Many "collectors" are annoyed, because TLC slapped them in the face by
> > selling a very popular collector's item; many "architects" are looking
> > wistful back in time, when they found nice pieces like red tudor walls or
> > signs in their newest Deal-Bags. TLC has stolen dozens of proud stories and
> > lucky ways of getting a Guardied Inn - now you can order and you get it, the
> > charme is not the same. Only a few people in the Forum of 1000steine.de were
> > really overjoyed.
>
> Blah. I couldn't care less if collectors are annoyed. The new sets won't
> harm the collectability of old MISB sets. It will only harm the ability of
> "collectors" to get the red tudor parts and sell them for obscene amounts of
> money. Pardon me if I don't pity them.
>
> This will make things much easier for BUILDERS, for whom I have the utmost
> respect... that's what LEGO is, a BUILDING toy. If you want to collect
> something, there are some nice Bionicle mask packs on the market that will
> keep you busy for awhile.
>
> $.02
>
> ~Grand Admiral Muffin Head
ROFLMAO!!!
Jude
It's funny 'cause it's true. ;-)
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In lugnet.castle, Mark Sandlin writes:
> Pardon me if I don't pity them.
No problem, I'm not a real collector, although I'm interested in completing
my castle collection and I'm a dealer, too (but that's my job). Above all
I'm a builder (sorry for using "architect", don't know the right english
words all the time) like the most of us.
> This will make things much easier for BUILDERS, for whom I have the utmost
> respect... that's what LEGO is, a BUILDING toy.
I respect all kinds of living the LEGO-Hobby, if as collector or as builder.
That's why I would welcome the comeback of the #10000 a little bit modified.
IMO, this would satisfy the collectors AND the builders.
> If you want to collect
> something, there are some nice Bionicle mask packs on the market that will
> keep you busy for awhile.
Oh, my very special expression of thanks for this endearing tip.
Kind Regards,
René
www.1000steine.de
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In lugnet.castle, Mark Sandlin writes:
> Pardon me if I don't pity them.
No problem, I'm not a real collector, although I'm interested in completing
my castle collection and I'm a dealer, too (but that's my job). Above all
I'm a builder (sorry for using "architect", don't know the right english
words all the time) like the most of us.
> This will make things much easier for BUILDERS, for whom I have the utmost
> respect... that's what LEGO is, a BUILDING toy.
I respect all kinds of living the LEGO-Hobby, if as collector or as builder.
That's why I would welcome the comeback of the #10000 a little bit modified.
IMO, this would satisfy the collectors AND the builders.
> If you want to collect
> something, there are some nice Bionicle mask packs on the market that will
> keep you busy for awhile.
Oh, my very special expression of thanks for this endearing tip.
Kind Regards,
René
www.1000steine.de
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In lugnet.castle, Mark Sandlin writes:
> René Hoffmeister at rene.hoff@gmx.de wrote:
>
> > Many "collectors" are annoyed, because TLC slapped them in the face by
> > selling a very popular collector's item; many "architects" are looking
> > wistful back in time, when they found nice pieces like red tudor walls or
> > signs in their newest Deal-Bags. TLC has stolen dozens of proud stories and
> > lucky ways of getting a Guardied Inn - now you can order and you get it, the
> > charme is not the same. Only a few people in the Forum of 1000steine.de were
> > really overjoyed.
>
> Blah. I couldn't care less if collectors are annoyed. The new sets won't
> harm the collectability of old MISB sets. It will only harm the ability of
> "collectors" to get the red tudor parts and sell them for obscene amounts of
> money. Pardon me if I don't pity them.
>
> This will make things much easier for BUILDERS, for whom I have the utmost
> respect... that's what LEGO is, a BUILDING toy. If you want to collect
> something, there are some nice Bionicle mask packs on the market that will
> keep you busy for awhile.
Actually, the reissue should make collectors deleriously happy.
Right now there are two major groups of people looking to buy out-of-production
LEGO sets- set collectors (those who want to have a set for the sake of having
the set) and builders (those who want a set because it has pieces no longer in
production, or not available in certain colors in other sets, etc). Because
there are two groups of people to whom certain sets appeal, the price can get
driven up pretty high.
With the re-relese of the Guarded Inn, builders will no longer need to buy the
original Guarded Inn in order to get certain elements (sign, tudor wall pieces,
etc). This will mean the price for the original set will come down, because
only the collectors will still want it.
If someone who has the set already is upset because the price will be dropping,
that means one of two things- either, as Mark said, they are holding the sets
hoping they will go up in value (also known as "speculating"), in which case I
also have no sympathy towards them, or they are people who bought it for their
own collections and now feel they paid too much- to whom I say, stop being a
collector. Things go up and down in value for a lot of reasons, and nothing
you buy is guaranteed to be worth as much as you paid for it forever. If you
can't deal with that, collecting is not for you.
In any case, I find it hard to have sympathy for anyone who is upset by this
re-release.
eric
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In lugnet.castle, Eric Joslin writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Mark Sandlin writes:
> > René Hoffmeister at rene.hoff@gmx.de wrote:
> >
> > > Many "collectors" are annoyed, because TLC slapped them in the face by
> > > selling a very popular collector's item; many "architects" are looking
> > > wistful back in time, when they found nice pieces like red tudor walls or
> > > signs in their newest Deal-Bags. TLC has stolen dozens of proud stories and
> > > lucky ways of getting a Guardied Inn - now you can order and you get it,
> > > the charme is not the same. Only a few people in the Forum of
> > > 1000steine.de were really overjoyed.
> >
> > Blah. I couldn't care less if collectors are annoyed. The new sets won't
> > harm the collectability of old MISB sets. It will only harm the ability of
> > "collectors" to get the red tudor parts and sell them for obscene amounts of
> > money. Pardon me if I don't pity them.
>
> Actually, the reissue should make collectors deleriously happy.
>
> Right now there are two major groups of people looking to buy out-of-
> production LEGO sets- set collectors (those who want to have a set for the
> sake of having the set) and builders (those who want a set because it has
> pieces no longer in production, or not available in certain colors in other
> sets, etc). Because there are two groups of people to whom certain sets
> appeal, the price can get driven up pretty high.
>
> With the re-relese of the Guarded Inn, builders will no longer need to buy the
> original Guarded Inn in order to get certain elements (sign, tudor wall
> pieces, etc). This will mean the price for the original set will come down,
> because only the collectors will still want it.
>
> If someone who has the set already is upset because the price will be
> dropping, that means one of two things- either, as Mark said, they are
> holding the sets hoping they will go up in value (also known as
> "speculating"), in which case I also have no sympathy towards them, or they
> are people who bought it for their own collections and now feel they paid too
> much- to whom I say, stop being a collector. Things go up and down in value
> for a lot of reasons, and nothing you buy is guaranteed to be worth as much
> as you paid for it forever. If you can't deal with that, collecting is not
> for you.
I've been trying to think of a good way to express this for a couple days
now. Thanks, Eric - I agree 100%
People like me who only want the parts can get the new one, collectors who
want the original can still hunt it down and have their stories or
what-have-you. Speculators who want only to sell for profit can learn from
this, and put their money into something more stable than the used toy
market(1).
$0.02
James
1:(pardon my cynicism) ...like penny stocks, the lottery, or commodity futures.
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Sorry for quoting so much, it's all context....:
In lugnet.castle, James Brown writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Eric Joslin writes:
> > Actually, the reissue should make collectors deleriously happy.
> >
> > Right now there are two major groups of people looking to buy out-of-
> > production LEGO sets- set collectors (those who want to have a set for the
> > sake of having the set) and builders (those who want a set because it has
> > pieces no longer in production, or not available in certain colors in other
> > sets, etc). Because there are two groups of people to whom certain sets
> > appeal, the price can get driven up pretty high.
> >
> > With the re-relese of the Guarded Inn, builders will no longer need to buy the
> > original Guarded Inn in order to get certain elements (sign, tudor wall
> > pieces, etc). This will mean the price for the original set will come down,
> > because only the collectors will still want it.
> >
> > If someone who has the set already is upset because the price will be
> > dropping, that means one of two things- either, as Mark said, they are
> > holding the sets hoping they will go up in value (also known as
> > "speculating"), in which case I also have no sympathy towards them, or they
> > are people who bought it for their own collections and now feel they paid too
> > much- to whom I say, stop being a collector. Things go up and down in value
> > for a lot of reasons, and nothing you buy is guaranteed to be worth as much
> > as you paid for it forever. If you can't deal with that, collecting is not
> > for you.
>
> I've been trying to think of a good way to express this for a couple days
> now. Thanks, Eric - I agree 100%
>
> People like me who only want the parts can get the new one, collectors who
> want the original can still hunt it down and have their stories or
> what-have-you. Speculators who want only to sell for profit can learn from
> this, and put their money into something more stable than the used toy
> market(1).
I can also agree 100% with what Eric wrote--with the exception
that I don't see the "speculation" or selling market as such a
sacrophytic organism. There are shades of grey; for everyone
hauling 6067s out in hopes of getting $200, there are many more
parts sellers (like me) who get numbers of currently-available
sets, make lots of unusual parts, and sell those to fund their
own collections. But those who do buy to sell, markup, and
auction are certainly welcome to do so, in my opinion. I'm
downright Larritarian in that one small part of my philosophy.
But I do agree that collectors should accept what's happened as
part and parcel of the speculator's market. It is 100% within
LEGO's right to reproduce any set they wish--it is *their own
intellectual property and nobody else's*. LEGO hasn't stolen
anything from anyone, they have rather actually listened to our
clamour and watched the demands and wishes and now they're making
a gesture towards the things we as a community have long wished
for. What's more, when adjusted for inflation it's actually
*cheaper* than the original retail price was--so I don't think
they're trying to profiteer unduly. That's one of the risks
of collecting anything that's produced by a company that still
exists. If you want safe collectibles, go for old Packards and
Studebakers (and AMC Gremlins...bwaaahaahhaaha!).
Now, that said, it's within our purview to continue to wish
and critique and complain--I'd bet TLC has a pretty thick skin
and will know how to read it. In that vein I have very much
appreciated the viewpoints of those who aren't happy with
the creation of the Legends line, even though I'm firmly in
the "oh, neat!" camp. I want some Tudor houses! :)
> 1:(pardon my cynicism) ...like penny stocks, the lottery, or commodity futures.
Don't forget that Savings & Loan!
Slightly related: Is 10000 the first step towards re-introducing
truly modular Castles (not counting Ninja)?
best
Lindsay
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On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:23:13 GMT, "Mr L F Braun"
<braunli1@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
Crossposted to lugnet.market.theory, please trim follow ups
accordingly.
>
>
>
> I can also agree 100% with what Eric wrote--with the exception
> that I don't see the "speculation" or selling market as such a
> sacrophytic organism. There are shades of grey; for everyone
> hauling 6067s out in hopes of getting $200, there are many more
> parts sellers (like me) who get numbers of currently-available
> sets, make lots of unusual parts, and sell those to fund their
> own collections. But those who do buy to sell, markup, and
> auction are certainly welcome to do so, in my opinion. I'm
> downright Larritarian in that one small part of my philosophy.
>
> But I do agree that collectors should accept what's happened as
> part and parcel of the speculator's market. It is 100% within
> LEGO's right to reproduce any set they wish--it is *their own
> intellectual property and nobody else's*. LEGO hasn't stolen
> anything from anyone, they have rather actually listened to our
> clamour and watched the demands and wishes and now they're making
> a gesture towards the things we as a community have long wished
> for. What's more, when adjusted for inflation it's actually
> *cheaper* than the original retail price was--so I don't think
> they're trying to profiteer unduly. That's one of the risks
> of collecting anything that's produced by a company that still
> exists. If you want safe collectibles, go for old Packards and
> Studebakers (and AMC Gremlins...bwaaahaahhaaha!).
>
>
> Lindsay
I have no problem with those who wish to collect MISB sets, I have no
problem with those buy sell used, find new (old)sets in a store
somewhere(or garage sale etc) and sell them for a profit. What(whom?)
I dislike is/are those who say that LEGO cannot or should not reissue
old sets. LEGO owns the sets designs and copyrights and if they wish
to please a portion of their fans by reissuing these sets that us fans
want so much, LEGO is well within their rights to do so. I am *VERY*
happy to have now pre-ordered 4 of the 10000 Guarded Inns, I may order
more depending upon how various RL things work out. It is *VERY* to
order multiple OTHER classic Castle sets if they are reissued,
especially 677/6077 Knights Procession and the Armor Shop and
BlackSmith shop (even more so if they were a combo :^).
Simply put, let LEGO release the Legends sets, if people buy them they
can do more, if people don't, they'll stop. Just because a particular
person spent a whole bunch of money on a set is not a reason to NOT
reissue that set. Just because a person plans on selling a particular
set for a big markup due to high demand and low supply is NOT a reason
to NOT reissue a set. Frankly I don't care if someone was
speculating and now is not going to make very much or any profit from
a set, its *ALL* about the availability of parts baby! That's what is
really going on here, is we get parts that have been unavailable or
have been unavailable in certain colors for some time where we can get
them!
I will buy the Legends that I like and not buy those I don't, vote
with your money, if you like buy!
Mike
--
All other themes are just spare parts for Castle! :^)
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In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> Hello!
>
> The 6067 "Guarded Inn" is my all time favourite LEGO® set. The first
> glance at the picture in the 1986 catalogue was the initial spark of
> this love... And I was lucky to get it as a birthay present the same
> year.
>
> The Guarded Inn is a legend. But what makes it a legend?
>
> Of course it is well designed model: The fitting choice of colours, the
> little details, its originality as the only "civilian" castle set...
>
> But another reason for it to be a legend is its rarity.
>
> In America this set was never regularly available in the shops (because
> it is a pub and promotes drinking...?). So it became one of the most
> desired sets in America I think. And it was a little cruel of TLC that
> it was listed in the Shop-at-Home-catalogue. You saw it, you knew it,
> but you couldn't get it as a child depending on parents' purse...
>
> Btw there are many sets that have never been released outside the US:
> For example #6071, #6060, #6390 and all the value packs. We Europeans
> were not even aware of these sets. When I saw #6060 the first time on
> Lugnet I was really shocked: Such a great set! And LEGO kept it back
> from me! You could have heared me curse and swear at LEGO :-)
>
> But now I have some of the (castle) US-only sets. And I wouldn't be too
> happy if these sets would be re-released. To big was my effort to get
> them. If everybody could buy as many of these sets as they wanted the
> thrill would be lost.
>
> Consider the pride of !finally! having a Guarded Inn!
>
> Be honest: The parts in the 6067 ain't too great... Some gray wall parts
> (more of them are in the bigger castles), black roof parts (available in
> service packs), a red maiden hat (there are three sets with it) and some
> minifigs. And of course the red tudor wall parts. But I never used them
> too often. And I wouldn't use them even if I had more than my three of
> them.
>
> Now you can buy as many sets with these red tudor walls as you want.
> And? Do you want to build a half timbered house out of these parts? Will
> we see thousands of galleries at BrickShelf showing houses with red
> tudor wall parts? White tudor wall parts would be better...
>
> Now you can put a newly recieved set in your showcase and say: This is
> the long desired Guarded Inn! And? Where had been the thrill getting it?
>
> The Guarded Inn is a legend in America because of its (former) rarity.
> In other countries the 6067 is not really a legend but a highly rated
> set because of its beauty.
>
> Maybe it will become a new legend as the first LEGO set celebrating a
> rebirth. (Every 2000 years a resurrection... But don't let the
> resurrection become normality.)
>
> I'd really prefer to see some NEW models with the quality of the Guarded
> Inn.
>
> ;-)
> Jojo
Hey, think about people like me: I didn't start buying Lego until long after
the inn was released. My castle collection consists of OVER THIRTY KNIGHTS AND
NOT ONE BED, NO PLACE TO EAT, AND NO PUBLIC CHAIRS (only thrones)! The guarded
inn comes with A BED for all the knights in the kingdom to fight over, A CHAIR
(I think), and A PUP FOR THE KNIGHTS TO GO EAT AAND DRINK AT (I can finally use
the castle walls that I used to "Midevil up" my McDonalds and other modern
stores (who else has done this?). I don't know about you, but I'm quite pleased
with this July Suprise. I'm only wondering if it was true what someone else
said about "Bulk Plants" this July, and the new rubber-grass-with-studs plate.
NICK
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