 | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
A message to the Evil Oppressors:
Your disparagment and oppression only serves to strengthen my resolve.
I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
let folks know about the sale.
No one speaks for the “mecha community”. None of you.
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
I believe the people who spend their time oppressing me have no compassion.
No breadth of scope. No understanding of my dream.
The proceeds of this model will put food on my table and continue to maintain a
roof over my head. This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a person
trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
Those who attempt to oppress my way of life have no room in their heart to see
fellow Lego Fan succeed at a mutual craft.
Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
The same people, the same hatred.
I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
The graphic has been online for weeks now.
No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
heads.
I have decided to protest your oppression.
I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
The view counts will say all that is needed.
You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
I respect your anonymity.
Sending me your personal emails encouraging me is fine.
However you allow me to suffer in public.
This is understandable considering the negative effects that may come your way.
I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in owning
one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month alone. I am
proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I can manage.
I do not wish to fight. I only wish to create.
I will continue to create until I have no more Lego.
The title of this post is acurate, this is an IRON MECHA, and it is FOR SALE.
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy them.
The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the knowledge put
in to them.
Allow another human being to seek his own liberty.
Making a post that informs my peers of a sale is no crime.
Only a select few, people who I have fought with in the past have taken issue
with my posts. Those who wish to damage my success.
Looking back, I would do it again.
Because I know the hunger in my stomach, I know the cold outside.
I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the vast
sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them off
so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my collection.
I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
I love to build. I will always love Lego.
Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
Now I present my first image to peaceably protest of the cruelty that continues
to thrive through the oppressive nature of my foes.
Build on.
This is called “Struggle to build”.
Eric Sophie 2006
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
|
And yet...
| |
Looking back, I would do it again.
|
...you admit you would do it again, even after it’s been explained to you (more
than once) why posting auction notices in .build.mecha is against the TOS.
| |
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
|
And yet you agree to be “controlled” by the Lugnet TOS every time you post. And
you have flagrantly ignored that agreement. And you now say you’re happy to do
it again.
Maybe Lugnet just isn’t the place for someone with your dreams?
ROSCO
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
A message to the Evil Oppressors:
|
If you really think that reminders to follow lugnet’s TOS and international
copyright law constitues ‘Evil Opression’, then you’re more delusional than even
I thought possible.
| |
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
|
Here’s a little feature of Lego that you may not be aware of - You can break it
up and make something else.
| |
This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a
person trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
|
Plenty of people have managed to offload their collections without a)such
blatant violation of the TOC and b)decending into paranoia and lunacy.
| |
Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
The same people, the same hatred.
I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
The graphic has been online for weeks now.
No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
heads.
|
No-one else is trying to turn a buck out of it. See the difference?
| |
I have decided to protest your oppression.
I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
The view counts will say all that is needed.
You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
I respect your anonymity.
|
I have decided to protest your protest by posting a sarcastic comment to each
and every one of them.
| |
Sending me your personal emails encouraging me is fine.
However you allow me to suffer in public.
This is understandable considering the negative effects that may come your
way.
|
Public, private. As long as you’re suffering.
| |
I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in
owning one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month
alone. I am proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I
can manage.
|
How? Obviously not by selling mech bays on Auctionbrick. If you’re actually
selling those mecha frames, I hope Marcus is getting his share. If he’s getting
less than 50%, you’re robbing him.
| |
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
|
Even if that were true, you’re clearly unrepentant now. I really, really can’t
understand why you haven’t been banned yet.
| |
I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy
them. The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the
knowledge put in to them.
|
That still leaves about $800 unaccounted for.
| |
I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the
vast sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
|
www.bricklink.com
| |
This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them
off so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my
collection.
|
www.ebay.com
| |
I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
I love to build. I will always love Lego.
Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
|
Not at those prices. Open a bricklink store, and I might browse around. Until
then, good luck. You’re gonna need it.
Allister
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Allister McLaren wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
|
Here’s a little feature of Lego that you may not be aware of - You can break
it up and make something else.
|
YOU OWE ME A NEW KEYBOARD, AL!
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
This is called “Struggle to build”.
|
Let me guess - You’re represented by the shiny knob. The diver surrounded by the
twisty turntables is the Lugnet community entagled in the knob’s particular
brand of lunacy, and the skeletons are the lurkers waiting to complain about
all the fighting that made them leave lugnet in the first place.
Am I close?
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Allister McLaren wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
This is called “Struggle to build”.
|
Let me guess - You’re represented by the shiny knob. The diver surrounded by
the twisty turntables is the Lugnet community entagled in the knob’s
particular brand of lunacy, and the skeletons are the lurkers waiting to
complain about all the fighting that made them leave lugnet in the first
place.
Am I close?
|
I just love art that’s open to interpretation.
Legoswami
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
> In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
> > I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
>
> A message to the Evil Oppressors:
Since I was one of the many to reply to the violation of the ToU, I cold take
offence to this remark, but I'm Canadian, so eh...
>
> Your disparagment and oppression only serves to strengthen my resolve.
>
> I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
> let folks know about the sale.
>
> No one speaks for the "mecha community". None of you.
I don't speak for mecha community, I, as well as others, speak for the LUGNET
community. It's the 'community policing' that we have going on here.
>
> Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
> I want it to have a good home.
> I cannot continue to own a war machine.
> That is my personal choice.
And you are allowed to post auctions of your 'bot to the Buy/Sell/Trade group.
There is no issue with that.
>
> I believe the people who spend their time oppressing me have no compassion.
> No breadth of scope. No understanding of my dream.
Again, no oppression. People can see your auction in the Buy/Sell/Trade NG.
Don't cry 'foul' becaouse you don't like the rules.
> The proceeds of this model will put food on my table and continue to maintain
> a roof over my head. This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a
> person trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
>
> Those who attempt to oppress my way of life have no room in their heart to
> see fellow Lego Fan succeed at a mutual craft.
Again, I'm a pretty big fan. That said, I'm not allowed to break the laws to
make my dreams come true, nor should you.
> Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
> The same people, the same hatred.
> I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
> The graphic has been online for weeks now.
> No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
> Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
> heads.
No hatred or jealousy from me. And the only complaint is regarding breaking the
rules. No breaking the rules, no complaint.
> I have decided to protest your oppression.
> I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
> If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
> The view counts will say all that is needed.
> You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
> I respect your anonymity.
I have decided to point out your rule flouting. Again, no oppression at all.
> Sending me your personal emails encouraging me is fine.
> However you allow me to suffer in public.
> This is understandable considering the negative effects that may come your
> way.
>
> I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in
> owning one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month
> alone. I am proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I
> can manage.
And you do a good job at building. Now, put aside the artistic insolence and
realize that you're damaging the very community that has aided you in achieving
your status
> I do not wish to fight. I only wish to create.
> I will continue to create until I have no more Lego.
> The title of this post is acurate, this is an IRON MECHA, and it is FOR SALE.
Again, no issues with the title, or the content, or what you're trying to do.
The issue is with the location of your post--if you posted to Buy/Sell/Trade,
there would have been no issues. However, you violated the ToU of LUGNET, and
now you state that you will willingly do it again.
To sum, you knowingly flout the rules when the rules are inconvenient to you.
> I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
> I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy
> them. The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the
> knowledge put in to them.
>
> Allow another human being to seek his own liberty.
> Making a post that informs my peers of a sale is no crime.
> Only a select few, people who I have fought with in the past have taken issue
> with my posts. Those who wish to damage my success.
Making a post regarding an auction in a non-auction group is violating the ToU.
And again, I wish you all the success in the world for your endeavours.
However, you keep on stating that I wish damage to your success. Nothing could
be farther from the truth. You keep stating this and I may get the idea that
you don't like me.
> Looking back, I would do it again.
Again, disregarding inconvenient rules.
> Because I know the hunger in my stomach, I know the cold outside.
> I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the
> vast sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
>
> This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
> I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them
> off so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my
> collection.
>
> I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
> So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
Offer them in B/S/T only.
>
> Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
Not controlling your dreams--you can build your dreams all you want. If you
want to sell your dreams and advertise that sale on LUGNET, you have at your
disposal the B/S/T newsgroup. Avail yourself of that particular group and there
will be no issue.
> I love to build. I will always love Lego.
> Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
Again, if selling your dreams is your desire, then avail yourself of the .B/S/T
NG
> Now I present my first image to peaceably protest of the cruelty that
> continues to thrive through the oppressive nature of my foes.
Stop with the 'artist being oppressed' talk--there is no oppression here. You
have all the freedom you want to post auctions to the B/S/T group. No one is
saying you can't.
> Build on.
>
> This is called "Struggle to build".
>
> <http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=44833
> <http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Legomaster/Things/struggle-to-build.jpg
> Click to Support - allow a fellow Lego Builder to seek his own liberty>>¬
>
> Eric Sophie 2006
I think maybe you should put more effort into an artistic representation of
'Struggle to understand the LUGNET ToU'
;)
Dave K
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, David Koudys wrote:
> And you are allowed to post auctions of your 'bot to the Buy/Sell/Trade group.
> There is no issue with that.
Just to be a complete compartmentalized dork about this, actually if it's an
auction it should not be posted to market.bst but to market.auction, since bst
specifically excludes auctions:
http://news.lugnet.com/market/buy-sell-trade/?n=1
"Community trading post, items wanted, items for straight sale (no
auctions), experiences, market analysis, etc."
The only correct place for auctions is lugnet.market.auction.
Kevin Wilson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Craftsman Lego Kits & Custom models: http://www.lionsgatemodels.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BrickLink Lego parts store: http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=Kevinw1
The Guild of Bricksmiths(TM): http://www.bricksmiths.com
Brickshelf Gallery: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=kevinw1
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
let folks know about the sale.
|
A few things to note here. 5000 views does NOT mean 5000 people from
build.mecha looked at it. Nor does it mean 5000 people want to hear about a
sale announcement in build.mecha when most of them probably don’t even read the
group. Lastly, 5000 views doesn’t even mean 5000 people actually *liked* it.
Most of the people probably saw it on the recent page on Brickshelf. Some
undoubtedly clicked on it to find they loved it, just as some clicked on it to
find that they *didn’t* like it. Please stop equating gallery views to some
kind of measurable “They Like It” value. High view numbers can just as easily
be caused by “Hey, this is bad, you have to check it out!” as “hey, this is
awesome, check it out!”
| |
No one speaks for the “mecha community”. None of you.
|
Neither do you, despite your attitude of such. And in truth, when many people
post saying you are doing something wrong and very few (if any) pipe up to
defend you, it probably does mean they are speaking for the community at that
specific time.
| |
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
|
Well and good, but don’t post the sale announcement to build.mecha. It is a ToS
violation. Keep it to the appropriate group.
| |
I believe the people who spend their time oppressing me have no compassion.
No breadth of scope. No understanding of my dream.
|
Having dreams aren’t blanket immunity from the consequences of violating the
ToS, which you agreed to abide by when you signed up to post. Neither is “the
community wants to see my sale announcement despite the ToS violation!”
| |
The proceeds of this model will put food on my table and continue to maintain
a roof over my head. This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a
person trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
|
See above about keeping sale announcements to appropriate groups.
| |
Those who attempt to oppress my way of life have no room in their heart to
see fellow Lego Fan succeed at a mutual craft.
|
So we’re “oppressing your way of life” by pointing out you violated the rules of
the board here? That is like saying we should not prosecute thieves who rob
banks and homes because imprisoning them “oppresses their way of life.” Not a
good idea, now is it?
| |
Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
The same people, the same hatred.
|
Jealousy and hatred for you do not motivate me. Hatred of your continued
rulebreaking and whining when you get called on it *does* motivate me. You’re
older than I am; stop acting like you’re twenty years my junior.
| |
I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
The graphic has been online for weeks now.
No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
heads.
|
You weren’t violating ToS then, nor were you trying to make a profit on someone
else’s initial concept design. Did you get approval to sell a product based on
that drawing? If not, you may want to do so, or you could be sued and then lose
all that money and then some. And note here that this statement is meant to
protect *you,* so don’t start shouting “oppression!” when you read it.
| |
I have decided to protest your oppression.
I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
|
If they are not of mecha, they may very well be a violation of the ToS for this
board. Are you willing to accept the consequences of your “protest”?
| |
If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
The view counts will say all that is needed.
You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
I respect your anonymity.
|
As I stated above, view counts pretty much mean nothing. People browse
Brickshelf independently of Lugnet, so the sample will be contaminated and
meaningless.
| |
I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in
owning one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month
alone. I am proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I
can manage.
|
That still doesn’t give you the right to break the rules and post such messages
in groups that disallow MOC sale notifications.
| |
I do not wish to fight. I only wish to create.
I will continue to create until I have no more Lego.
The title of this post is acurate, this is an IRON MECHA, and it is FOR SALE.
|
We don’t have issue with the “accuracy” of your post title. We have issue that
you crossposted it improperly, even after warnings on previous occasions.
| |
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy
them. The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the
knowledge put in to them.
|
Be that as it may, you still did violate ToS, in the exact same way as you have
in the past. After repeated warnings of such, I can only think you’re
intentionally ignoring the warnings and rules, or you’re too wrapped up in
yourself to realize you could do anything wrong.
The major complaints are NOT, I repeat *NOT* about you wishing to sell a
creation. The complaints are that you have violated the ToS of Lugnet and
build.mecha by crossposting the sale announcement to build.mecha. The
announcement in market.b-s-t is perfectly fine. In addition, there is concern
that you did not get approval from the original creator of the design you based
your MOC on. If you did not, you could easily be sued by the copyright holder,
as I stated above.
| |
Allow another human being to seek his own liberty.
Making a post that informs my peers of a sale is no crime.
Only a select few, people who I have fought with in the past have taken issue
with my posts. Those who wish to damage my success.
|
Again, you’re violating the *rules.* You agreed to abide by them when you
signed up. Violating the rules is grounds for having posting priviledges
revoked on a temporary or permanent basis. If you are fine with that, go right
ahead and violate the rules and live with the consequences. This is not an
issue of “liberty” or “freedom.”
| |
Looking back, I would do it again.
|
This attitude makes you an unrepentent rulebreaker and deserving of the
consequences passed onto you by the Lugnet admins.
| |
Because I know the hunger in my stomach, I know the cold outside.
I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the
vast sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them
off so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my
collection.
|
And you’re more than welcome to, on any site that allows sales. However, you
also need to keep announcements to the appropriate groups.
| |
I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
|
You asked them about this specific model, or in general? If you asked about
this specific model, they have no say since they do not hold the copyright on
the design used in the Iron Mecha Challenge.
| |
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
|
Nor would I. But dreams are just that: dreams. Don’t use them to excuse your
ToS violations.
| |
I love to build. I will always love Lego.
Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
|
And if I wanted it, I’d be happy to buy it. But even if I wanted it, I’d still
be here telling you to keep sale announcements to market.buy-sell-trade.
| |
Now I present my first image to peaceably protest of the cruelty that
continues to thrive through the oppressive nature of my foes.
Build on.
This is called “Struggle to build”.
|
(Links Deleted)
| |
Click to Support - allow a fellow Lego Builder to seek his own liberty>>
Eric Sophie 2006
|
Your “liberty” is more akin to anarchy, because you seem to think the rules
shouldn’t apply to you. Please do not repeatedly violate ToS in this way.
Doing so will only strengthen the opinion held by many that you care little
about anything but yourself and the attention, be it positive or negative, that
you recieve. If you’re unsure of the ToS, there’s a link at the bottom of every
page on Lugnet.
Jeff
(Setting followups to admin.general because that is the proper place to discuss
the ToS and violations of such.)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
I really didn’t want to become part of this post because I felt so puzzled by
what I was reading. I have always held Lugnet with high regard, due to the
civillized nature of the people here, unlike most public forums which are not
so. I don’t post very often but I like coming here to see whats happening in the
wider LEGO community.
I strongly admire Eric Sophie for his work, his building skills and his general
attitude on LUGNET, as well as the inspiration he has provided me with over the
few years I have been sharing my creations here. This is also true for many
people who frequent DOTMecha.
I cannot understand why this unconstructive debate about the TOS has started,
and more so, why it has been allowed to continue publicly?!?! If there has been
a TOS violation it should be dealt with privately between the user and admin
staff. Personally I think it does no harm, if one of the worlds leading LEGO
builders is selling something and wants to let the mainstay of the Mecha
building communtiy know about it.
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, get the BRICK(s) out, and get
building to put something constructive back onto the page!
Peace
Jas
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Jas Nagra wrote:
| |
I really didn’t want to become part of this post because I felt so puzzled
by what I was reading. I have always held Lugnet with high regard, due to the
civillized nature of the people here, unlike most public forums which are not
so. I don’t post very often but I like coming here to see whats happening in
the wider LEGO community.
I strongly admire Eric Sophie for his work, his building skills and his
general attitude on LUGNET, as well as the inspiration he has provided me
with over the few years I have been sharing my creations here. This is also
true for many people who frequent DOTMecha.
I cannot understand why this unconstructive debate about the TOS has started,
and more so, why it has been allowed to continue publicly?!?! If there has
been a TOS violation it should be dealt with privately between the user and
admin staff. Personally I think it does no harm, if one of the worlds leading
LEGO builders is selling something and wants to let the mainstay of the Mecha
building communtiy know about it.
|
I agree with everything you’ve said - up until this point. True, having his
for-sale post in .mecha doesn’t do any harm, but rules are rules. Just because
he happens to be “one of the world’s leading LEGO builders” (not everybody will
agree on that) does NOT mean he is above and beyond the rules. In fact, as a
prominent member of the mecha community, he should act accordingly and in-line
as a role model to newer/younger builders.
-Bryan
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Jas Nagra wrote:
| |
I cannot understand why this unconstructive debate about the TOS has started,
and more so, why it has been allowed to continue publicly?!?! If there has
been a TOS violation it should be dealt with privately between the user and
admin staff. Personally I think it does no harm, if one of the worlds leading
LEGO builders is selling something and wants to let the mainstay of the Mecha
building communtiy know about it.
|
The rules are the rules, whether you think the breaking of one is harmful or
not. The rule against marketplace type posts in theme groups was a direct
result of the high number of such posts (and other off-topic messages, such as
political debates) on rec.toys.lego in the days before Lugnet was created. It
was instituted with the approval of the vast majority of the regular posters at
the time. Getting rid of the rule would open the floodgate to allow anything
any seller deemed “related” to a single group to be crossposted to dozens of
groups or more.
Jeff
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Soren
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote:
> <<http://www.maj.com/gallery/Lazarus/misc/Macros/sand.jpg>>
What an incredibly crass blast of bad taste, even more so than anywhere else in
this thread. I'm really disappointed to see that posted here under your name,
Soren.
If this is emblematic of where LUGNET is heading, I want no part of it.
LFB
(followups trimmed)
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| |
|
In lugnet.build.mecha, Lindsay Frederick Braun wrote:
> In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote:
> What an incredibly crass blast of bad taste, even more so than anywhere else in
> this thread. I'm really disappointed to see that posted here under your name,
> Soren.
>
> If this is emblematic of where LUGNET is heading, I want no part of it.
Often in the past we have lamented the sort of "fringe group" stigma attached to
LEGO as an adult hobby. An air of "geekiness" or "nerdiness" seemed to linger,
no matter how many dazzling sculptures or mosaics or train layouts are
displayed. We still seem to wrestle with the notion that LEGO is a "kid's toy,"
and I think many of us have be conscious of sideways glances as we've perused
the new items on the shelf.
I'm not a big LEGO buyer anymore, but people who know me know that I'm no
stranger to that same toy aisle, and I likewise get a little bit of that "you
like to play with what?" vibe.
Still, we persevere. Our community includes numerous tightly-knit groups and is
always eager to rally around someone in need. We unanimously condemned the
recent largescale theft and reselling of expensive LEGO sets from Target etc.,
and with one voice we have expressed support and cameraderie when members of
LUGNET (or their loved ones) have passed on.
Our political, social, and spiritual views run the whole spectrum, yet somehow
even those of us who disagree most strongly can find common ground in the
exchange of ideas and the sharing of MOCs. We are not without flaws, but we
know that we can be better than the stereotype.
The stereotype envisions the AFOL as an immature loner unable to engage in
healthy social interaction. Perhaps he lives in his parents basement, and
perhaps he's even held a woman's hand other than his mother's. The stereotype
meshes neatly with the Comic Book guy from The Simpsons, a rude and sarcastic
misfit, misanthropic and misogynistic with little to recommend him outside of
his collection.
I am pleased to know that the stereotype is very often wildly incorrect.
And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so negatively
and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back fondly to the time
when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger sense of community.
Those days were good. Are those days gone?
Some days it's difficult to conclude otherwise.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so
negatively and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back
fondly to the time when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger
sense of community.
Those days were good. Are those days gone?
Some days it’s difficult to conclude otherwise.
|
I see this sort of comment with fair regularity and it makes me sad. Not because
I wish for these supposed “good days” but because it means people have already
reached the stage where they are forgetting/rewriting the past.
I’ve been around Lugnet since almost the beginning (lurking for at least the
first couple of years) and remember RTL from as far back as 1998. I think there
was a lot more sharing of ideas and conversation between themes etc. in the
early days. But that was mainly because there were a lot fewer people.
What I do NOT remember is an absence of fights. As far back as I can remember
there have been flamewars, public disagreements, complaints, time outs and other
forms of ‘nastiness’. They tended to die off a bit quicker (maybe) but that was
mainly because there were less interests at stake (ie. people who would have a
problem with one side or the other).
Here are some old examples I just dug up. They aren’t all neccessarily flamewars
but they certainly point towards them. The first post in lugnet.general is made
on the 28th September 1998.
“I find it a little sad that one HAS to
clarify obvious witticisms in order to avoid a flame war! Ho Hum...“ - Jan 1999
Swearing AND bad ldraw part design -
Apr 1999
Naughty threading - Nov 1999
Lots of relevance to the current
situation (and even longer) - Feb 2000
So it looks to me like the flamewars started pretty darn soon after Lugnet did.
I can understand people not liking flamewars. Personally I just ignore them if I
feel I should or participate in them if I feel I should but everyone is entitled
to their own opinion on things. I just can’t understand why people claim that
the “good ‘ol days” didn’t have them.
Something to think about.
Tim
PS. Posted to .people since that seems to be the best place for it.
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In lugnet.people, Timothy Gould wrote:
| |
| |
And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so
negatively and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back
fondly to the time when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger
sense of community.
Those days were good. Are those days gone?
Some days it’s difficult to conclude otherwise.
|
I see this sort of comment with fair regularity and it makes me sad. Not
because I wish for these supposed “good days” but because it means people
have already reached the stage where they are forgetting/rewriting the past.
I’ve been around Lugnet since almost the beginning (lurking for at least the
first couple of years) and remember RTL from as far back as 1998. I think
there was a lot more sharing of ideas and conversation between themes etc. in
the early days. But that was mainly because there were a lot fewer people.
What I do NOT remember is an absence of fights. As far back as I can remember
there have been flamewars, public disagreements, complaints, time outs and
other forms of ‘nastiness’. They tended to die off a bit quicker (maybe) but
that was mainly because there were less interests at stake (ie. people who
would have a problem with one side or the other).
Here are some old examples I just dug up. They aren’t all neccessarily
flamewars but they certainly point towards them. The first post in
lugnet.general is made on the 28th September 1998.
“I find it a little sad that one HAS
to clarify obvious witticisms in order to avoid a flame war! Ho Hum...“ -
Jan 1999
Swearing AND bad ldraw part design -
Apr 1999
Naughty threading - Nov 1999
Lots of relevance to the
current situation (and even longer) - Feb 2000
So it looks to me like the flamewars started pretty darn soon after Lugnet
did.
I can understand people not liking flamewars. Personally I just ignore them
if I feel I should or participate in them if I feel I should but everyone is
entitled to their own opinion on things. I just can’t understand why people
claim that the “good ‘ol days” didn’t have them.
Something to think about.
|
Well, all right.
I don’t really care about flame-wars because they’re self-evidently juvenile and
they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for “middens” if
you want to see what I’m talking about), but my recollection is that most of the
protracted shouting matches went on in the “hidden” forums rather than playing
out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then, the
signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles could go
unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET goes a half
an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when someone posts a
“you’re a stinker” diatribe, it tends to linger.
Additionally, those halcyon days didn’t support FTX, so it was less likely that
someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of anatomy.
I’m not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone on,
and I’m not sure that it’s a welcome trend.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
Well, all right.
I don’t really care about flame-wars because they’re self-evidently juvenile
and they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for “middens”
if you want to see what I’m talking about), but my recollection is that most
of the protracted shouting matches went on in the “hidden” forums rather than
playing out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then,
the signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles
could go unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET
goes a half an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when
someone posts a “you’re a stinker” diatribe, it tends to linger.
|
Hi Dave,
You make a good point about the signal:noise ratio 1. With that I agree. I’m
not sure that the dramas were so much in hidden forums as there was enough
masking but either way I agree with your point.
I would be worried if I saw ‘proper’ posts being drowned out at the moment but
fortunately I don’t. For example I posted an MOC two days ago which got lots of
responses so I’m not too concerned ;)
| |
Additionally, those halcyon days didn’t support FTX, so it was less likely
that someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of
anatomy.
|
We did have a few people who were a lot more kid-unfriendly (if you’re into that
sort of thing). Had someone posted hardcore porn I would share that concern but
that hasn’t happened yet and I doubt it ever will.
| |
I’m not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone
on, and I’m not sure that it’s a welcome trend.
|
I think the analogy is more that the face has shrunk so the warts are denser ;)
I do trust that you’re not being blindly nostalgic. Partially because I’ve seen
your posts over a long period of time and have no great reason to suspect you of
being self-blinding and partially because you took the time to respond in a
reasonable and thought out manner. I just find it a bit untruthful when I see
posts worded like yours that seem to imply that old lugnet was somehow less
unfriendly.
Please don’t take my earlier post (or this one) as a criticism or an attack. It
was more me just trying to add some different perspective to the ‘new vs. old’
chestnut.
Tim
1 There’s some interesting observations that can be made on the signal:noise
ratio of the various posters in the latest drama
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.people, Timothy Gould wrote:
| |
We did have a few people who were a lot more kid-unfriendly (if you’re into
that sort of thing). Had someone posted hardcore porn I would share that
concern but that hasn’t happened yet and I doubt it ever will.
|
Well I think this comes
pretty close, but I suppose that’s subjective.
ROSCO
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.people, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
Well, all right.
I don’t really care about flame-wars because they’re self-evidently juvenile
and they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for “middens”
if you want to see what I’m talking about), but my recollection is that most
of the protracted shouting matches went on in the “hidden” forums rather than
playing out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then,
the signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles
could go unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET
goes a half an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when
someone posts a “you’re a stinker” diatribe, it tends to linger.
Additionally, those halcyon days didn’t support FTX, so it was less likely
that someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of
anatomy.
I’m not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone
on, and I’m not sure that it’s a welcome trend.
|
Why is it always implied that newer members are largely to blame for LUGNET’s
decline? It seems to me that more often than not, newer members are even more
uncomfortable here than you vetrans. LUGNET more than any other LEGO fan site,
seems to be driven by elitism. Not unlike a fanclub, senior members oftem place
themselves above and beyond the newbies. In turn, membership has dropped
significantly in the past few years. Look how few members LUGNET has lured into
the fold over the past four months.
From my limited experience here, I find that this place is simply too
inhosbitable to all but the most fanatical of fans. This thread is a shining
example of the elitism and hostility that is all too frequent in this fandom.
Still, vetran users would prefer to point the blame elsewhere, rather than take
it upon themselves to act more cordial towards their fellow fans. Heck, just
typing this reply is putting me on edge.
At the end of the day, LUGNET has simply become less relevant to the AFOL
community. Casual fans seem to have moved on to other forums, specializing in
certain niches (classic-castle, FBTB etc.), rather than listening to the long
winded diatribes of the LUGNET hardcore. Now, it seems that this is simply a
site to vent. When a MOC is profiled, a few of you vetrans may indulge
yourselves by typing a short review, but such a need is easily filled by other
sites (MOCpages for example). Less accomplished builders quickly find out that
nobody here even cares about their mediocre MOCing. Most of these types won’t
stick around for long. So, is it any surprise that there isn’t alot of traffic
around here?
Later.
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| |
|
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006, Joel Midgley wrote:
> In lugnet.people, Dave Schuler wrote:
> >
> > Well, all right.
> >
> > I don't really care about flame-wars because they're self-evidently juvenile
> > and they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
> > lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for "middens"
> > if you want to see what I'm talking about), but my recollection is that most
> > of the protracted shouting matches went on in the "hidden" forums rather than
> > playing out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then,
> > the signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles
> > could go unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET
> > goes a half an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when
> > someone posts a "you're a stinker" diatribe, it tends to linger.
> >
> > Additionally, those halcyon days didn't support FTX, so it was less likely
> > that someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of
> > anatomy.
> >
> > I'm not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
> > terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone
> > on, and I'm not sure that it's a welcome trend.
>
> Why is it always implied that newer members are largely to blame for LUGNET's
> decline?
I see no such implication in anything Dave wrote here.
> LUGNET more than any other LEGO fan site, seems to be driven by elitism.
Huh? Not that I have anything against elitism, but LUGNET doesn't seem to
even have any mechanisms for an elite, aside from background stuff
(whether or not a set is put in the Guide, what color background all posts
have in the Web interface, etc.). Arguably, the list of member comments
on sets in the Guide is in order of membership[1], but there's nothing
else that communicates "This guy's comment is important, but you can
ignore these other guys." My newsreader just gives me a list of recent
posts in any newsgroup, not any indication that the elect have dictated
that a few posts must be read, but the rest are by unworthy peasants.
There is a (blessed) absence of continuously updated information with each
post telling me how long the poster has been around and how many posts he
has made.
> From my limited experience here, I find that this place is simply too
> inhosbitable to all but the most fanatical of fans.
Okay. I have no idea how LUGNET is inhospitable to casual fans[2]. I
need to know how if I am to make it less so.
--
TWS Garrison
http://www.morfydd.net/twsg/
Remove capital letters in address for direct reply.
[1] And if there is a LUGNET elite, is Laura Gjovaag (#80) in it but Kelly
McKiernan (#2626) not?
[2] I've heard that it's inhospitable to the technically inept but a) I
don't care and b) I know more than enough technically inept fanatical Lego
fans to know that that's not the issue here.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Dave Schuler wrote:
> The stereotype envisions the AFOL as an immature loner unable to engage in
> healthy social interaction. Perhaps he lives in his parents basement, and
> perhaps he's even held a woman's hand other than his mother's. The stereotype
> meshes neatly with the Comic Book guy from The Simpsons, a rude and sarcastic
> misfit, misanthropic and misogynistic with little to recommend him outside of
> his collection.
I wasn't really aware this stereotype existed until now.
For the record, I'm independent, reasonably polite, and perfectly capable of
healthy social interaction - I just don't see Eric as a fit person to waste it
on. And yes, I have done considerably more than hold hands with women other than
my mother. Misanthropic I'll have to concede.
To be fair, you may not have been referring to me. Were you? I can think of one
person in this thread who fits all of those descriptions to a T.
> And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so negatively
> and so totally
Well, I love a good passive-aggressive insult as much as anybody, especially
inaccurate ones, but I think you're missing the larger error on both sides.
In retrospect I concur that I shouldn't have posted that image - nothing gets
people riled up like sex, especially questionably sexual humor. And Lugnet being
so quiet these days, I could hardly count on it being missed. It's been removed.
Everyone who responded, you might have been better served to send a quiet
private email indicating your offense and requesting that I take down the image.
I was happy to do so, as you can see.
Instead, you chose to respond publically, which makes us all equally guilty of
clogging up the server with noise posts.
Soren
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Dave Schuler wrote:
> I am pleased to know that the stereotype is very often wildly incorrect.
>
> And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so negatively
> and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back fondly to the time
> when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger sense of community.
>
> Those days were good. Are those days gone?
>
>
>
> Some days it's difficult to conclude otherwise.
It seems so.
I just came back (again) after a year of being on leave, Just clicked on top of
the highlight list,
BAAAAMM!
Guys, what did you do to this place? what really is changed?..
And Eric, I remeber you from the old days of Lugnet, as one of the best
creators, and one of the creators that I most admire.
Please stop it. Your rants and such is perfect reputation killers.
I didn't wanted to step in but this sentences below makes me do it:
"long-standing members of LUGNET look back fondly to the time when we were a
much smaller group but had a much bigger sense of community"
Selçuk (#4)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote
:
(snip)
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
Please consider not posting items that would be offensive to children. Would
your sister/mom/grandmother/aunt /wife/girlfriend/significant other approve of
that graphic and comment?
Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Paul Sinasohn wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote
:
(snip)
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
Please consider not posting items that would be offensive to children. Would
your sister/mom/grandmother/aunt /wife/girlfriend/significant other approve
of that graphic and comment?
Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
|
No Paul, you are not speaking only for yourself. It’s a safe bet that
you are speaking for virtually all women. I’d say much of the righteous
indignation in this thread is misplaced.
And I also agree with LFB, Lugnet sure ain’t what it used to be. It’s a shame.
Maggie C.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Paul Sinasohn wrote:
| |
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
|
If children young enough to be harmed by that image actually read lugnet in
meaningful numbers I will eat a hat. With your choice of garnishes.
| |
Please consider not posting items that would be offensive to children. Would
your sister/mom/grandmother/aunt /wife/girlfriend/significant other approve
of that graphic and comment?
|
Well, I haven’t got a sister, I’m not married, the girlfriend list would be
mostly on the side of finding it quite funny, I’m not currently on speaking
terms with my mother, and my grandmother would go into shock - but she also goes
into shock at the idea of gay men marrying, so I consider her to be a less than
reliable moral indicator.
| |
Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
|
I appreciate your concern, but I find it interesting that you would complain
about a mildly sarcastic reference to a body part which I find beautiful and
natural, and not to Sophie’s repeated and laughable threats of physical violence
in this same thread. I consider those far more harmful to children.
I agree that posting the image was an act of poor judgment, but for entirely
different reasons.
Soren
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Soren Roberts wrote:
| |
I appreciate your concern, but I find it interesting that you would complain
about a mildly sarcastic reference to a body part which I find beautiful and
natural, and not to Sophie’s repeated and laughable threats of physical
violence in this same thread. I consider those far more harmful to children.
|
I’ll admit that I haven’t read the entire thread, so I haven’t seen those
threats. When I get a chance, I’ll find them and respond appropriately.
Paul Sinasohn
speaking for myself
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Soren Roberts wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Paul Sinasohn wrote:
| |
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
|
If children young enough to be harmed by that image actually read lugnet in
meaningful numbers I will eat a hat. With your choice of garnishes.
|
Soren, one is a meaningful number where that is concerned. But the bad-taste
quotient in general was really my particular lament--not having children or
being an actual small child, I’ll leave that outrage to those who may.
| |
| |
Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
|
I appreciate your concern, but I find it interesting that you would complain
about a mildly sarcastic reference to a body part which I find beautiful and
natural, and not to Sophie’s repeated and laughable threats of physical
violence in this same thread. I consider those far more harmful to children.
|
I think you’re missing something. The point is that those other threats being
broached are not only being addressed with due unction, but they’re also not
especially surprising. The crux of my comment was that I expect better from
you, from a knowledge of your posting history. Just because someone’s out there
making threats and acting badly does not mean that it’s suddenly OK to be just a
little less crass.
While I accept, sadly, that some denizens of these waters seem to be unable to
control themselves, it really bothers me much, much more when someone I have a
very positive impression of stoops to such a level. Otherwise, what would be
the point of fussing?
best
LFB
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Lindsay Frederick Braun wrote:
***snip
| |
one is a meaningful number...
|
***snip
***snip
| |
addressed with due unction, but they’re...
|
***snip
| |
The crux of my comment...
|
Not to make sport of all this, Lindsay, but I can’t help noticing a vaguely
eccliesiastical flair to this post. Are you undergoing a rebirth of some kind?
Dave!
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
A message to the Evil Oppressors:
Looking back, I would do it again.
This is called “Struggle to build”.
Click to Support - allow a fellow Lego Builder to seek his own liberty>>
|
SNIP
Eric,
What is going on, man?
People have brought up a lot of legitimate points and you haven’t really given a
clear explanation or rebuttal to the points addressed...
As an artist myself, I am learning a lot about publicity and reputation in
college, and what you’re doing really isn’t helping to foster a good image - in
fact, its contributing to quite the opposite. I hate to sound obvious, but when
you’re posting, always keep in mind that potential clients and customers could
be reading your posts, and that your reputation (whether online or offline) is
priceless.
You may have lost business because of this.
Every action has a real consequence, and you need to realize that if you wish to
continue to be successful as a artist, you need to step back and really
condsider what your goals are. What do you want to be known for?
Do you want to be known for great models and a friendly demeanor? Hopefully.
Do you want to be known as someone who goes into crazy rants and gives mixed,
delusional messages? That kind of stuff is just unproductive. Period.
Hopefully you wish to be known as a talented and reliable, cool person. As an
artist, you’ve definitely got talent (believe me, I know talent when I see it)
but you need to be more open to others opinions and stop with the “they’re out
to get me” and the “evil oppressors are out to destroy my cause” nonsense. Time
spent debating is time you could be using to build your next creation or do some
research on a new concep t.
Its all about and respect for others and the *rules that govern the community*.
That is what others are asking for. Follow those and you’ll be in a far better
position.
I’m not the type of guy who likes to lecture people at all...in fact, I get
lectured to a lot, but I thought I’d chime in on this because I hate to see
someone with potential bring himself down.
1. Matt Hein
http://www.lugnet.com/people/members/~1112/
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
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I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
let folks know about the sale.
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Eric, you do realise “recent” folders on BS get several hundred views per day
without even trying, don’t you?
ROSCO
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