 | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Allen Foster
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| | | In fairness, although the NXT has a small amount of memory, you're talking about porting a high level interpreted language like Python to a low-cost embedded platform. For my sins, my day job consists of developing code that must cross compile (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —steve
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| | | | | (...) The size of the flash on the NXT is ridiculously small compared to almost any other consumer-grade embedded systems. Look at cheap digital cameras, PDA's, handheld game systems, thumb drives, MP3 players and cell phones. Name one of them with (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | (...) You've brought up the price point several times. If your analysis is correct (example: adding 64MB for a couple bucks), why don't you think LEGO did it? It would seem to me there are three options: 1) Your economic analysis is flawed. 2) LEGO (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Benton Jackson
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| | | | | | | | (...) Another more likely option is that they put the ram and flash ram on the same custom chip as the ARM. Not only would this reduce the parts count, but it would save pinout and simplify the circuit board. (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) Benton, In the world of electronics it is typically cheaper to buy what you need off the shelf than it is to create your own custom chip, unless you are going to have extremely high volume sales. When it costs $100,000 or more to fabricate a (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Agreed! And if they did come up with a PC in a brick, you'd have to put new batteries in it every few minutes :) JB (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —steve
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| | | | | | | | | | Kevin L. Clague wrote: > What you need to do is to make a dongle for your laptop PC > with 8G DRAM, a 1 terabyte hard disk, that gives you an infinite > number of LEGO NXT compatible motor ports and sensor ports. > > You will probably have to drill (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Steve, no matter how you look at it, adding that greater potential would have increased the price. Not just the $10 or whateva for the memory, but the extra development time needed to integrate it. Hell they could have just included a (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —John Brost
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) (speaking out from the peanut gallery) I had a big message going about this, but ROSCO has save me the time to type it. Ditto on all the above. LEGO had a price point they wouldn't budge from. According to the Wired article, more than one of (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Dean Hystad
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Don't forget about marketing, packaging, and support costs and profit. And all those little plastic building parts. Though a new NXT will cost you and me $256, it probably only cost LEGO less than $50. So now $8 (I price I saw in this thread) is (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Steve, Would you say that the above paragraph is a well thought out, coherent argument? Have you ever actually read a post by John or myself where we claim that LEGO can do no wrong? Or are you simply supposing that because we disagree with (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Kevin, While I agree with your points regarding cost/features; and I can understand the view of the "need more memory" crowd. I think what needs to be expressed more "eloquently" is the fact that while starting from the ground up, Lego seemed (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, let me make my position clear. I want more memory too, and I understand Danny and Steve B. want for more memory too. But you can't get somethin for nuttin'. My initial reaction was "64K !?!? You mean M right? DRAM is cheap!". But LEGO (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Trevyn Watson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) The RCX contains a chip that says (c)LEGO, upper right in this picture: (URL) did Lego have to do with the creation of this chip? Does anyone know what kind of chip this is? (I can't read the numbers on it) Trevyn (19 years ago, 15-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re[2]: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Allen Foster
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Hello Trevyn, (...) That's the Hitachi H-8 Microcontroller. It is merely silk-screened with the Lego logo, they had nothing at all to do with it's development. (19 years ago, 15-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Re[2]: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Philippe Hurbain
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I think it is silk-screened with LEGO logo because it contains a rom masked with firmware downloader. Philo (19 years ago, 15-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Re[2]: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, I suspect the same. The ROM mask *is* the custom part of the chip that LEGO can easily define without big expenditures. I noticed that the atmel chip also has a boot ROM that is separate from the flash. If they use that chip we might (...) (19 years ago, 15-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I can to. But, I don't think I can force a redesign (to put it mildly). So... how do we fix this problem? I mean, the idea of "only three sensors" didn't last long with the RCX (I generally shun custom hardware, yet regularly use 4 or more (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) :) :) :) Brian, I am so..... going to kick you!!!!! :) :) :) (sticks out tounge) :) :) :) Chris (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Gee, you do like hard challenges... (...) Chris, Next time I see him, I'll kick him for you. Of course, I need to watch out, because I think he owes me a kiss from David K... :) Steve (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I think thats a HUG from Dave, but i negate that hug cause I still wanna smack ya. :) So Dave hugs you, you kick Brian, Geesh, this is getting complex. IF there was some "smack it forward" web page maybe we could work this all out. :) Chris (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Sir, if you hand me a straight line like "code my way out of a paper bag", well... I'm only human ;-). So I've got to give Steve a negated hug while he kicks me? Dang, I'm not sure we can do that within the limits of the standard firmware... (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Chris, I don't believe I've ever taken the stance that I don't want more memory in the NXT. I can't imagine that I'd ever take that position. I'm not opposed to more memory, but I am trying to see, understand and share what little I know about (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I imagine (and am hoping) at least one such "hacker" will be included in the developer program recently announced, and hopefully enough info will be made available to get a good start on said software. But even if that doesn't happen, remember (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Any of you guys heard of PBForth?... (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Juergen Stuber
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| | | | | | | | | | Hi Chris, (...) I'd guess at the AT91SAM7S256, the ST type has a lot of stuff that isn't needed (CAN, smartcard interface, HDLC interface) and 16K extra flash which aren't mentioned in the LEGO press release. See (URL) and (URL) Also take a look at (...) (19 years ago, 15-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Benton Jackson
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| | | | | | | | (...) Ah, I missed that one. No need to make a custom chip if they've already got one- and since it has a sufficient amount of ram and flash on board, there isn't much choice. Unless there are similar chips out there with more? (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) Maybe you could go look and see. Kev (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | (...) There could be other factors... Battery life (I have no idea what more flash would do to the battery life) Space/Size constraints (adding more memory may take up more room inside the NXT brick and/or require more PCB traces etc) Heat/power (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —dan miller
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| | | | What you say below is entirely true, up to a point. Note that most Lego stuff (and this is true outside Lego -- it applies to most controller code I've seen for robotics) is now using bytecode interpreters. The memory advantages far outweigh the CPU (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | (...) Dan, Once you get your hands on an NXT I encourage you to try. Sounds like you have considered the costs and it might work. Don't wait for permission from us! Just try it. Often when people say it can't be done, I just consider it a challenge. (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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