Subject:
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Re: The difference between hobbyists and collectors...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto
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Date:
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Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:03:01 GMT
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Viewed:
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1645 times
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In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno wrote:
> David Koudys wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno wrote:
>
> > >
> > > tell me dave. define a piscaso, or a monalisa? just some oil, and ink,
> > > slapped on some old canvas. why are THEY worth what they are?
> > >
> > > Chris
>
>
>
> Dave, way to ignore this part. just dont tell janey. she hates it when
> you mock "art"
>
>
Well, let's talk about that, shall we?
An art auction (which I've seen mostly on the telly, and only once or twice in
person) usually starts each round of bidding with the 'fair market value' of a
painting, and people bid up from there.
As I stated elsewhere, I think that's perfectly legit
(again, everything herein is personal opinion and doesn't necessarily mean 'life
altering' for others, or 'carved in rock' for me--opinions can change...)
So this is a prime example of 'let the market (i.e. 'the buyers') decide' what
they want to pay for something.
Now in the example 've been mentioning, where a seller is listing an opening
value of 400 dollars for a set whose 'fair market value' is significantly less
(again, my opinion, but I think the numbers from BL will back me up on this), is
just price gouging.
Of course, no one has to buy the set at 400 bones, and if someone does, then, to
them, it's their idea of 'the right price'. For me and my money, however, it
isn't.
Furthermore, the comparison between art and LEGO is not really a valid one--you
can't get Picasso to paint another <insert fav. picasso painting here> right
now. First, he's pretty much not with us, and second--since a picasso painting
is by its inherent nature a, how to say this--'made by hand'--i.e. cannot be
exactly duplicated, even by the original maker, then the painting is a
'singularity'.
You cannot say the same for LEGO bricks. The company will produce millions of
them in 2007. Many bricks that come out of the molds this very year are
'technically' the same as the ones in set 345. As well, with relatively little
effort, TLC could produce that exact set tomorrow (if they so chose). Again,
you can't say that about a picasso painitng.
As a tangent, there was once a 'Little House on the Prairie' episode in which
Charles started working for a furniture maker. This furniture maker has a
similar midset as the guy who started the LEGO company many years ago--only the
best is good enough. So Charles designed and made this end table/coffee
table/folding table/whatever type of table it was (I can't temember) and it was
well received by the 'market'--people wanted to buy 'em 'cause the table was
beautifully made and showed craftsmanship. Unfortunately, Charles had to make
each table 'by hand' and therefore the time to make each one was significant,
and the price reflected this accordingly.
Well 'Joe Competitor' down the street makes a 'knock off' of the table--without
the craftsmanship or the care, but makes a plethora of 'em, and sells 'em cheap.
People bought those ones instead and Charles was out of business in the 'table
making' industry and went back to the farm (and half-pint)
One of the only times I remember when Little House 'stepped out' of itself was
the end of this show--the last scene was an auction in 'present day', in which a
very aged 'charles' table went for lotsa money due to the craftsmanship and
care--people could see that in Charles' table and were willing to pay for it.
And the inuendo was that none of the 'knock offs' made it to present day. The
point being that anything well built will stand the test of time. But again,
the bidding started at a reasonable price.
> >
> > Again, if someone gets the 400 dollars for an old set--hey, all teh power to
> > him.
> >
> > However, my personal opinion--jackass. As you say--it's not a matter of 'right
> > or wrong' or morals, because it is, indeed, a matter of opinion. My opinion is
> > that it hurts the hobby and hurts us all. It's the 'Ebenezer Scrooge' single
> > person hoarding to the loss of the community.
>
>
> did you just call me a jackass?
When don't I?
>
> :o
>
>
>
> > I've seen it before--John Doe has an excellent idea for designing something new
> > and great. 'Ahh, but I need part 'x' and only Richard Roe has part 'x' and he
> > wants a gazillion dollars for it.'
> >
> > There goes the idea.
>
>
>
> dave. Im gona call your bluff. I dont think that happened. not with
> Bricklink.
That thing above was more of a 'general' discussion point and wasn't veryt well
thought out. I was remembering my sleepless Christmas eve, when I was sitting
in front of the telly at 4 a.m. watching the History Channel and they had this
show on about J.P. Robertson and the history of his screw and screwdriver.
Quite informative, actually--his big factory was in Milton once.
Anyway, at the time when Robertson was gfetting established in the screw market,
a guy named Ford wanted to use the Robertson screw in his manufacturing process
for his first car--Ford figured that he could shave 2 and a half hours of
production time by using the Robertson screw instead of the slotted screw.
However, but Robertson wouldn't--how'd they put it--woiuldn't sell the 'rights'
to make the screw 'fair market' (so any company could manufacture Robertson
screws) and wanted to hold all exclusivity to setting prices. Ford didn't want
to be 'beholden' to anyone so he went to an American screw manufacturing company
and bought inferior screws, but ones which could be bought at 'fair market
value' (or somesuch) . Of course, that inferior screw was produced by some guy
named Philip.
Quite informative, actually. For something as insignificant as a screw, there
was a little bit of history there. Actually, Robertson produced the Robertson
screws cheaper and quicker than plants producing slotted screws. The slotted
screw takes two separate machines--one machine moulds the head, then another has
to cut the slot in it.
Robertson came up with a 'double punch' press--the first punch moulds the head,
the second punch puts the square in it--all on the same punch press, and all
automated. According to the show, first time in history that an automated
'double punch' press was used.
Anyway, after all is said and done, my personal opinion is this (subject to
change without notice)--
Get all the money you can--in whatever means you can
Wait--that's not it.
Be fair.
That's better.
It's like when you do some work for a buddy and buddy tries to give you lotsa
money for helping. You're looking at all the cash in his hands and you think to
yourself--what I did here today wouldn't pay me this much if I did it for a
complete stranger--I can only take what's fair.
But that's just how I think about things. And since, in my little world we're
all somehow dependant on one another, I can't formulate a way of 'screwing my
neighbour' on something today without thinking that it's somehow going to bite
me in the ass at some future point.
When selling something, start at fair market value and let 'capitalism' take its
course--if someone does pay you a gazillion dollars for something, then, hey!
bonus for you. If you start at something that's significantly higher than fair
market value 'cause you just want to screw your neighbour and get loads o' cash,
then I don't have the time of day for you. Good Day sir! I said good day!
Intent is all the difference in the world.
Dave K
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