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		Re: real conspiracies?
(...) money and you will find your answers -- while all the pretended reasons (morality, justice, etc.) remain mute. Another example: Some call if graft, others call it Title 12 of the U.S. Codes. -- Hop-Frog (awaiting the year of Jubilee) (22 years ago, 30-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) a picture of a Jefferson who appreciates the topical philosophy of Jesus while not attributing divinity. Hell, if you include people like that under the umbrella of Christianity, then I suppose you'd call me a Christian too. But of course (...) (22 years ago, 28-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: Netiquette Question (was Re: Legal Education? etc. )
(...) Whew! I'm sure I will. I place an unseemly value on "the really good notes" in this forum. Most of those have been written by you about the law and related politics, LFB about history and particularly it's effects on our current perceptions, (...) (22 years ago, 2-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Really, John! Do you think Richard is going to fall for that old trick? This is a debate about the separation of church and state, not about creationism. The "non-stupidness" of Jefferson referred to by Froggy is merely that he knew how to (...) (22 years ago, 28-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) While Jefferson embraced the ideas of Christ (perhaps the parables, sort of the red letter stuff), he was fairly hostile to the idea of Christ's divinity and to certain aspects of the gospels (esp. Pauline thought). I don't think that (...) (22 years ago, 28-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: Serves me right?
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes: <snip all but the most salient point> (...) Nope. If anything, you're one of the most level-headed posters around. James (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Indeed. Although I haven't read the founders as such, I can read the Declaration of Independence and find that the alleged invocation is of the form of "...the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle (...) (22 years ago, 28-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Amen, brother!!!! You are preaching to the choir on that one! (22 years ago, 28-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Right -- Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, etc... (...) Yes, fair enough -- but while there continues to be some psycho-xtian movement afoot to show that the framers were bible thumpers -- or that they even cared about such things, I think I can (...) (22 years ago, 28-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: I (...) Like it or not, our nation was founded by men who believed that the US was a country of higher purpose-- as it has turned out to be. To extricate the core values of those who created the (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Um, you're overgeneralizing. SOME of the Founding Fathers were indeed professed and practicing christians... Just not any of the ones that did the heavy lifting to get this nation off the ground. So you need to be more specific, I think, (...) (22 years ago, 28-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) That line of mine is from 'Oh Canada' Sometimes when I'm debating, I jump from one side of hte border to the other 'cause invariably, the stupidity that happens to our bigger brother, will eventually happen to us, though always on a much (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) You seem to be arguing that there shouldn't be a separation between church and state, the same thing these 'founding father' seemed wary of. (...) Deists come awfully darn close, in function if not appearance. (...) I've always called the (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Evidentily the Knights of Columbus did. This Catholic organization is the one that led the charge to get the words "under God" appended to the Pledge of Allegiance. The Pledge has existed longer without those words than with them (okay, not by (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) He's figured us out. Ah well, it was fun while it lasted. DaveE (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Here's another encouraging bit of religious tolerance: Newdow said that since the ruling he has received death threats, including one left on his answering machine that said, "You're a dead man walking." Newdow said he has received a flood of (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Legal Education? (was: real conspiracies?)
(...) Richard, In the past you have made references to your legal education and the woeful lack of legal education in virtually all of The People. I'm wondering if you have any reasonable suggestions about how to obtain said education. I applied to (...) (22 years ago, 30-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Since I'm the one who mentioned your libelous comments, I'll address this. You mischaracterize me (and thereby attempt a straw-man argument) by suggesting that I cry libel whenever I read something I dislike--that's simply not the case. I (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
John: The founding fathers were not religious and they were certainly not christians -- and that's putting it mildly. More anon... (...) I am sure at least some critical members actually were; or if not, they were merely deists[1] -- which is sort (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
(...) Yeah, but this group was created to serve as a kind of 'steam valve'. The intent was for threads that started in other groups, but got heated and off-topic, to move to this group. There was never an intent for this group to actually generate (...) (22 years ago, 27-Jun-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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