Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 28 Jun 2002 01:56:01 GMT
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Viewed:
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1729 times
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Indeed. Although I haven't read the founders as such, I can read the
Declaration of Independence and find that the alleged invocation is of the form
of "...the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of
Nature's God entitle them..." and "...with a firm reliance on the protection of
divine Providence..." and understand that these uses are clearly, carefully,
and precisely different from referring to the God of revelation, the God of
Abraham.
Constantine
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > I have not mentioned any particular religion so far, so for you to is a
> > little puzzling...
>
> It's pretty obvious what brands of religion are going to be the most
> concerned about this issue. And I don't feel like looking up all your past
> posts merely to discover that you ARE indeed some kind of christian, it is
> my assumption that you are based on my memory of previous discussions. If
> you are not some brand of christian, or fundamentalist, or whatever-- just
> say so now and I will make a concerted effort to remember that. But as
> stated, it is pretty obvious which religions were going to be pissed about
> this issue, regardless of whatever faith you may or may not embrace. So I
> was invoking the larger issues, and blowing past whatever you think the
> specific points of the argument may be -- your control this argument about
> as well as you understand the intent of the framers of our nation.
>
> > If the FF weren't religious, why envoke the name of God in the D of I?
>
> Did you even read my post? Did you read W. Ward's post? Have you ever read
> the original sources?
>
> It's almost pointless to discuss this question with someone that has never
> read the work of the founders. And it is my assumption that you have not.
> That's a pity, because it makes the discussion like talking to a wall for
> the rest of us. Educate yourself or begone!
>
> Look at this quote from the Declaration:
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
> that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
> among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
>
> That Creator, although capitalized, could be anything: a lump of clay, an
> amoeba in a bog, some sort of prime mover, nature, nature's god, etc. It is
> so vague as to be almost meaningless except for the meaning you wish to
> imbue it with. Do you think Jefferson was stupid? I think not...
>
> You cling to your assertions as if the force of your assertiveness would
> somehow make things that are untrue -- TRUE. And it is just not so.
>
> I don't really care how this "bs" Pledge of Allegiance issue (bread and
> circuses) is decided, but you raised a bigger question: whether the
> founders were a) religious and (and by assumption and because we all know
> what religion fronts the right) b) christians. It is painfully obvious, to
> everyone but the fools and hypocrites Jefferson so disdained, EXACTLY what
> the founders thought on both issues.
>
> -- Hop-Frog
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