Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 28 Jun 2002 02:46:53 GMT
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Viewed:
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1818 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > I have not mentioned any particular religion so far, so for you to is a
> > little puzzling...
>
> It's pretty obvious what brands of religion are going to be the most
> concerned about this issue.
Well, *I* was going to try and keep it above specifics, but since you mentioned
it....
And I don't feel like looking up all your past
> posts merely to discover that you ARE indeed some kind of christian, it is
> my assumption that you are based on my memory of previous discussions.
No need to wonder. I am indeed a Christian, although I feel that that fact is
moot in this discussion.
If
> you are not some brand of christian, or fundamentalist, or whatever-- just
> say so now and I will make a concerted effort to remember that. But as
> stated, it is pretty obvious which religions were going to be pissed about
> this issue, regardless of whatever faith you may or may not embrace. So I
> was invoking the larger issues, and blowing past whatever you think the
> specific points of the argument may be -- your control this argument about
> as well as you understand the intent of the framers of our nation.
>
> > If the FF weren't religious, why envoke the name of God in the D of I?
>
> Did you even read my post? Did you read W. Ward's post? Have you ever read
> the original sources?
>
> It's almost pointless to discuss this question with someone that has never
> read the work of the founders. And it is my assumption that you have not.
> That's a pity, because it makes the discussion like talking to a wall for
> the rest of us. Educate yourself or begone!
Really. Why don't you educate yourself (see below)
>
> Look at this quote from the Declaration:
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
> that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
> among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
>
> That Creator, although capitalized, could be anything: a lump of clay, an
> amoeba in a bog, some sort of prime mover, nature, nature's god, etc. It is
> so vague as to be almost meaningless except for the meaning you wish to
> imbue it with. Do you think Jefferson was stupid? I think not...
I think you are if you think that your creator was an amoeba. Nice squirming,
though.
>
> You cling to your assertions as if the force of your assertiveness would
> somehow make things that are untrue -- TRUE. And it is just not so.
>
> I don't really care how this "bs" Pledge of Allegiance issue (bread and
> circuses) is decided, but you raised a bigger question: whether the
> founders were a) religious and (and by assumption and because we all know
> what religion fronts the right) b) christians. It is painfully obvious, to
> everyone but the fools and hypocrites Jefferson so disdained, EXACTLY what
> the founders thought on both issues.
Hmm. Check out this letter from TJ written in 1803-- perhaps you don't know
EXACTLY what he thought about Christianity after all:
http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/jeffbsyl.html
-John
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