Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 28 Jun 2002 00:14:49 GMT
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Viewed:
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1711 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> I have not mentioned any particular religion so far, so for you to is a
> little puzzling...
It's pretty obvious what brands of religion are going to be the most
concerned about this issue. And I don't feel like looking up all your past
posts merely to discover that you ARE indeed some kind of christian, it is
my assumption that you are based on my memory of previous discussions. If
you are not some brand of christian, or fundamentalist, or whatever-- just
say so now and I will make a concerted effort to remember that. But as
stated, it is pretty obvious which religions were going to be pissed about
this issue, regardless of whatever faith you may or may not embrace. So I
was invoking the larger issues, and blowing past whatever you think the
specific points of the argument may be -- your control this argument about
as well as you understand the intent of the framers of our nation.
> If the FF weren't religious, why envoke the name of God in the D of I?
Did you even read my post? Did you read W. Ward's post? Have you ever read
the original sources?
It's almost pointless to discuss this question with someone that has never
read the work of the founders. And it is my assumption that you have not.
That's a pity, because it makes the discussion like talking to a wall for
the rest of us. Educate yourself or begone!
Look at this quote from the Declaration:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
That Creator, although capitalized, could be anything: a lump of clay, an
amoeba in a bog, some sort of prime mover, nature, nature's god, etc. It is
so vague as to be almost meaningless except for the meaning you wish to
imbue it with. Do you think Jefferson was stupid? I think not...
You cling to your assertions as if the force of your assertiveness would
somehow make things that are untrue -- TRUE. And it is just not so.
I don't really care how this "bs" Pledge of Allegiance issue (bread and
circuses) is decided, but you raised a bigger question: whether the
founders were a) religious and (and by assumption and because we all know
what religion fronts the right) b) christians. It is painfully obvious, to
everyone but the fools and hypocrites Jefferson so disdained, EXACTLY what
the founders thought on both issues.
-- Hop-Frog
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