Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:32:55 GMT
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Viewed:
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1670 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> I don't believe in the 'popular view', as in 'its *just* a tradition so who
> cares?'
Evidentily the Knights of Columbus did. This Catholic organization is the
one that led the charge to get the words "under God" appended to the Pledge
of Allegiance. The Pledge has existed longer without those words than with
them (okay, not by a lot at this point). It isn't a tradition, it is a
corruption of a tradition (also refer down to your mentioning of "rewriting
history" and then come back here).
> And this has nothing to do with separation of Church and State--I
> don't have to go to church to believe there's a god. Forgetting for a
> moment that I believe in God, though for me that's rather impossible, almost
> everyone who just read this line knew that when I put the capital G on God,
> that I was talking about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the
> Israelites, the God of Christianity, the God of the American forefathers,
> *my* God. Yes I know you will throw some stats out that some of the
> forefathers didn't believe, or whatever. It doesn't matter. Yes there is a
> separation of *Church* and State, as there should be. The state is suppose
> to support *all* people, not just the ones who happen to go to a specific
> church. That does not mean that we have to separate God from the
> people--don't go separating God from the country.
Of course it has to do with the seperation of Church and State. Its the
usual attempt to inflict group X's diety on everyone else. There absolutely
nothing wrong with the pledge of allegiance - until you try and teach it at
public schools. Yes, I know there is usually an "opt out", but the evidence
of ostracization and peer pressure is very well known (we've already had a
Lugnet member step forward on this very point).
>
> Some Bible thumpers will say the removal of God from the country is the
> reason that 'America is going to H-E-double hockey sticks in a handbasket.
> I'm not that guy, either. It's a perposterous claim--one doesn't have to
> look much further than the church to realize that we *all* have problems and
> issues to sort out and that *no one's* perfect.
I used to say that celibacy leads to abused altar boys...I was more right
than I thought.
>
> Everyone can believe what they, as individuals, want to believe. So you
> don't believe in a creator--seriously, that's your own opinion--stop forcing
> that opinion on me. The society, in general, as the fonding of the
> *nation*, the people, however you want to say it, started out as a God
> loving country. So stop trying to rewrite history, stop trying to say that
> we have to go to the lowest common denominator that states 'oh we don't want
> to offend *anybody* 'cause you're offending *me* when you do that.
This is a constant belief that if you oppose the "under God" you must be an
atheist. I'm not. I just happen to believe that forcing the Christian God
onto people of other beliefs (or atheists) is wrong. It's not a reference
to the Christian God? Change the words to "under Allah" and watch the
uproar (not that the Islamic and Christian God are different).
> You
> can't make all the individuals in society happy--it's impossible. So just
> stop it. Do what's *right*, what's Just, what's good for *the people*. The
> People believe in some god. So shaddap when you say they don't.
And don't let the Constitution get in the way? Nonsense.
Bruce
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