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This from a smokefree activist list I subscribe to... Unfortunately, workers lost the right to breathe smokefree air in all workplaces in Toledo and Duluth. No barhopping there! :-( Now for Illinois in 2006, I hope! -Tim -- There is mostly good news (...) (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Victories for smokefree ballot initiatives
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(...) Hmmm. So the point is to protect the employees of restaurants from smoke? Not about being able to have dinner in a smoke free room? Shouldn't that be left as a choice for the people who work in the bar? I've no problem with a smoking section, (...) (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm more than convinced it should be a law. When the smoker's right to smoke and the citizen (worker, patron, or other)'s right to breathe clean air are in conflict, the right to breathe clean air should always win. The economics are quite (...) (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No contest there. I do think we should allow people to make stupid decisions for themselves - if you choose to take the job at the bar, you accept the risks that go with knowing you're working in a place that allows smoking. (...) If 80% of (...) (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Victories for smokefree ballot initiatives
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(...) Makes more sense. If you're a patron, you generally get to choose not to enter the smoking section (except in cases where it's inconveniently placed between the restrooms and the rest of the restaurant, like the McD's from my home town). If (...) (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Wait a few years and move to Australia (URL) (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm with Dave on the interpretation of the job issue. As for letting people make their own stupid decisions--in general--sure. Let people choose to smoke, I can't prevent them from doing so in their own home, or among a group of consenting (...) (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Sorry for replying to myself, but on that last comment, I forgot to add: (URL) whistles go 'woooo woooooo!'" :-D -Tim (20 years ago, 3-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) So you would oppose mandatory non smoking areas as a way to lessen health risks to restaurant workers, then? (...) I agree. Are restaurants and bars public places, though? I would argue not. (...) Has this been adequately demonstrated? If it (...) (20 years ago, 5-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Kind of a tricky line to walk. I mean, getting a job as a stunt man you're subjected to physical danger and harm. Working as a stripper will almost guarantee what (in other industries) would easily be construed as sexual harassment from (...) (20 years ago, 8-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I await the day when the concept of smoking is only remembered in the history books. Not likely to happen in my lifetime, though. In the mean time, whatever I can do to clear the air, making it safer for me and others, I'll do. -Tim (20 years ago, 10-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Even if it violates people's rights? (20 years ago, 10-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The right to breathe clean air is inherently superior to the right to subject others to the byproduct of your pleasure. -Tim (20 years ago, 10-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Where? You have no right to breathe ANY air (clean OR dirty) when on my property, unless I grant it. And conversely I have no right to emit smoke on your property, unless you grant it. Therefore when you're on my property, you will breathe the (...) (20 years ago, 10-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) They're open to the public. We aren't talking about esatblishments that close their doors to people walking in. Nontheless, I don't sense we can agree on this issue, as we take a fundamentally different approach towards individual rights. (...) (20 years ago, 10-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Just thought of this one: I think your basis for saying that these establishments should ban smoking is for the employees, not the customers. Basically that if the employees were, say, robots, that it would be ok to have bars that allowed (...) (20 years ago, 10-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I await the day when the concept of smoking american guns all around the world is only remembered in the history books. with a paranoid nation which has just confirmed its paranoic government it's not likely to happen in my lifetime, though. (...) (20 years ago, 11-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ouch! For me, I'm very libertarian where smoking is concerned--Hey, you're hurting yourself if you smoke--if you want to play Russian Roulette with the cigarettes (1), all the power to ya! THis gets into a very big 'gray' area where my tax (...) (20 years ago, 11-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) All I ask about tobacco companies are that the people responsible for hiding cigarettes toxicity and increasing their addictive elements are held personally responsible for their deceptions (i.e. thrown in jail forever and fined so much that (...) (20 years ago, 11-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Hey, we wouldn't be paranoid if the rest of the world didn't hate Freedom™ and Democracy™ so much. And only 51% of the population confirmed that idiot for the Whitehouse. If I'd had my way, not only would he be fired from the job, but his (...) (20 years ago, 12-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What, and deprive future generations the ability to see what a Great Job™ he did??? ROSCO (20 years ago, 12-Nov-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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