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(...) If a Democratic government decides (ie the will of the people, the *majority*) to sanction hetereo marriages and not homosexual ones, what's wrong with that? I think a case can be made that the traditional nuclear family is a good foundation (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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Whew. Where to start? (...) It is legislating consensual behaviour. And that's wrong. No avoiding it. (...) True. So what? (...) First off, why does government have a monopoly on sanctioning marriages? Aren't they merely a contract between people? (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The *government* decides which contracts it will recognize. It has nothing to do with how you want to behave in private. (...) What about Nudists who want to walk around naked in public? Or Copulatists (I made it up-- people who want to be (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What gives the government the right to discriminate among contracts? It is then making a moral judgement that one sort of free will behaviour non rights damaging behaviour is better than another. Please address this fundamental point. (...) No (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Assuming we step into Libertopia, and you and Ed shack up, the government ought to treat you no differently than anyone else, right? He can inherit your property when you die, etc. What about corporations? Does ACME Insurance company have to (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Free to discriminate however they choose, for any reason or no reason at all. They're not the government. The government, having a de jure monopoly on the initiation of the use of force, is not free to discriminate in any way shape or form. (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The gov is of the people, by the people and for the people. If that's what the people want, what's wrong with that? By judging their moral judgments, aren't *you* making a moral judgment? (...) Or, if you must walk around naked, don't do it (...) (25 years ago, 18-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) OK - I'll bite on that one. I would agree that the traditional nuclear family as a good foundation on which to build a stable society. However, I can't see any reason why a family with - say - two gay men at its head shouldn't be equally good, (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) folly of allowing a (...) owner to open a (...) crime, etc.) (...) That one is possibly a bad example - since arguably if you open a brothel in a residential neighbourhood you are affecting the rights of the people who live around there - (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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<3790D4A4.AC909B52@voyager.net> <379164EC.11208B2B@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, you're being inconsistent. Let me summarize the points I'm making again rather than interspersing (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You'll have to pardon my ignorance. I am really trying to understand what you are saying. (...) Ok, I buy that. Who, would you say, determines or is qualified to determine which is superior? (...) I am confused. Are we talking about moral (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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(...) First, explain to me how 2 gay men "create" a family. Not possible. Unless, you say, if they adopt. In my perfect world, there would be no children for such "couples" to adopt, because orphaned children would be care for by immediate family (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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<3792817C.F236D232@voyager.net> <3792A1E5.40255C5D@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I am. You are. In fact I give criteria below. This turns on innate goodness vs. evil, but one germane (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) you (...) hetereo (...) that's (...) I believe I asked you to justify what could be inferior about 2 gay men as the head of a family unit, not simply to restate the fact that you believed that :) (...) I can't see any difference - as long as (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ok, fine. I think a child deserves to have a mother and a father. Doesn't matter how much a man can care for a child, a woman does it differently, in a way a man can't. And vice versa. I guess I never analyzed the reason very closely, it just (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) {:-0 Well excuuuse me;-) Didn't know if you were simply toting the party line, or if what you are debating was *yours* (...) If you are referring to zoning laws, then yes. Perhaps it is immoral and flawed, but the obvious benefit outweighs (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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(...) A joke from the comedy movie "Airplane!"(1). Something along the lines of "Surely, you must be joking!" "No, I'm not. And stop calling me Shirley!" Not exactly what is said, but that is the idea. -- Terry K -- 1. If you haven't seen it, it is (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) matter (...) man (...) just (...) Hmmm - I have to admit to being impressed there. That's about the first time I can ever remember seeing someone write down a reason for gay couples not adopting which sounds vaguely plausible, thought out, and (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Terry Keller writes: Got you now. Yes I have seen Airplane twice and I recall the joke now. Quite a good film. Simon (URL) (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I've been following this phenomenon for a while: (URL) interesting to note that this was noticed back in February, as well: (URL) suspect the newsserver isn't handling the references for extremely large threads properly. Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 22-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:38:04 GMT, Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in .debate: (...) B (...) This is an interesting References: manglement.. is it a Mozilla problem, or did Todd's newsserver screw up somewhere? Interesting it is mainly (...) (25 years ago, 22-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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(...) You know, every time I see this world I get bad associations. It reminds me of dystopia (regardless of my actual opinion of the described world). Jasper (25 years ago, 22-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:14:52 GMT, "Simon Robinson" <simon@simonrobinson.com> wrote: <snip child deserves a mother and a father> (...) You've never heard _that_ old tired argument before? I've been beaten around the head with it so often it's getting (...) (25 years ago, 22-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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You prolly think that men and women are equal, too. (...) Where is it written that all gays are implicitly wonderful, loving parents? Talk about stereotypes. -John "extinguishing the flames of stupidity" Neal (...) (25 years ago, 24-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:51:36 GMT, Sproaticus <jsproat@io.com> wrote: References: <376D7261.634B7347@bigfoot.com> <3777AA6F.E773F137@voyager.net> <3777CD7E.FE00DE15@a...state.edu> <3777F1EB.550FEE59@c...souri.edu> <37782AF6.A05C00BC@a...state.edu> (...) (25 years ago, 26-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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(...) Where did I talk about anything but stereotypes? *muttermustreallybel...gegrumble* Jasper (25 years ago, 26-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It makes an actual NNTP connection (no voodoo) and doesn't limit the length of the References field via the HTML form or anything like that. (...) I didn't modify any of those parts of CNews. --Todd (25 years ago, 26-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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(...) Apparently Lugnuts aren't easily duped into such thinly veiled trolls <except me> Me: FISHED IN, FISHED IN;-) -John (...) (25 years ago, 27-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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(...) Hm. (...) Odd. Maybe it's just an interaction between CNews and Netscape, then - the servers at my ISP run Diablo on linux and <something> on Solaris, respectively. Jasper (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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| | Hey Jasper, you there? ( Re: Government's role [Was: Re: What happened?]
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Is something up with dynip.com?? I am getting mail bounces from both my mail accounts trying to mail Jasper there. Jasper Janssen wrote: <usual babble> (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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