Subject:
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Re: 6 degrees of separation..
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:55:16 GMT
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Viewed:
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296 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-eliopoulos103001.shtml
>
> Okay. So I have read Machiavelli. Do you leave it to someone else to state
> unambiguously what this information tells us about our own government?
Not sure what you're asking, exactly. But THAT won't stop me from
pontificating nevertheless.
I'm not sure an unambiguous statement can be made based solely on this one
personal account (and I personally vouch for Paul's veracity... I have every
reason to believe the things that he said happened, actually did happen, he
is a kind and gentle man and extremely honest and competent, I learned a lot
from his tenure as project manager that I applied (in my own tenures in that
role) on other projects)...
But clearly we *caused* a problem relating to Iraq, if we hadn't propped
them up and led them on maybe they would not have had a mad dictator at the
helm for so long already by 1991 and wouldn't have gone adventuring.
Further, we didn't fix the problem we caused properly. When we left, all
smug and satisfied, the dictatorships of the region (Iraq, Saudi and Kuwait)
were all back in their previous places. Some win. Make a mess, don't clean
it up, and wonder why it bites you later.
Far better if we had broken up Iraq then (whether Turkey likes the idea of
an independent Kurdistan or not notwithstanding) just as one of the
proposals for Afghanistan being floated is suggesting now... the borders are
wrong, (those pesky British Empire types (careerists at the Foreign office,
no doubt) again) give parts of Afghanistan along ethnic division lines to
the neighboring states and maybe it won't fight itself so much. Not sure
about that, it needs careful consideraton before embracing or rejecting.
Further, his story suggests to me that the State department (internally, via
the careerists) seems to actively thwart the policy decisions and laws that
the Cabinet and Congress put in place. This seems endemic to much of the
current federal government but is particularly pernicious in this case.
You can see the effects in the conduct of the diplomatic part of the current
war. For the sake of a broad coalition we worry about Ramadan (as if a
religious holiday would stop our enemies...) and tiptoeing around a bunch of
dictators. Fah.
So ya, there are a few conclusions for you. Not sure if they are unambiguous.
Santosh posted a comparative list which is a bit tongue in cheek, but true
nonetheless. And all those things need to be fixed. (along with shutting
down the dictator's secret police training camp that Scott refers to as well.)
But at the same time (warts and all) we're better than they are. Because if
you try to compose a list of POSITIVES instead of negatives, our list looks
a lot better than theirs.
But then I've rejected moral relativism as long as I've been here and then
some. Careful readers always knew that.
++Lar
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: 6 degrees of separation..
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| (...) It is not just the dictators who respect Ramadan - do not forget that. If we bomb through Ramadan we will be dammed as being insensitive. If we choose to stop for Ramadan, we will be dammed for making a cynical token move. Nevertheless, I (...) (23 years ago, 31-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: 6 degrees of separation..
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| (...) Is that a global (America) "we're"? And who exactly does "they" refer to? It's a bit naive to try & judge "relative goodness" of a nation (or a people) by such a list (even if you could compile such a list). IMO. ROSCO (who thinks Americans (...) (23 years ago, 31-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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