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(...) You know, appealing to ideas in a Jeffersonian mold is an appeal to authority, and as perhaps "THEE" central philosophical figure of the foundations of my country, I consider Jefferson an authority whose wisdom is not easily overcome -- and (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Did those "right to bear arms" people decide to do what you think you would, and use those arms? no, they didn't. Therefore, the arms were irrelevant at best. (...) You take them to court. You take them to the highest court you can. There have (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) I don't live "without freedom" or in a "tinpot dictatorship". Get over yourself. Face the facts--there are *democracies* that work without the citizens being armed. And yet you can't deal with that one. You;re doing an end-run around the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello wrote: I don't have a real problem with your overall assertion, but you attempt a few points that really don't benefit your argument: (...) You're suggesting that your wife should have brandished her (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That reasoning isn't entirely sound, and it omits relevant factors. If there are fifty deaths-by-hammer, then we need to ascertain how many hammers were involved. If one guy went on a hammering spree with one ball-peen, then the elimination of (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) We're not? Are you sure about that? I'm not. (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Did you even read my post? The gun owners were the first group of Jews rounded up for precisely that reason. (...) Words on paper (laws) protect me less than the police do. Police do not stop crime over 99 percent of the time. They simply (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Now come on. Pay attention. (URL) (...) Please get your facts straight. In tin-pot dictator type countries only the government and police have guns. That is why they can oppress and enslave their people. (...) Exactly we have guns too. (...) (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I was looking for a spot to jump in to this debate too, and I don't know if this is it, but what the heck I will butt in anyway. I know and understand the Jeffersonian arguement that citizens need to be armed against an oppressive government, (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) No, by definition a criminal is exactly that. However, see the hammer argument, and the fact that the majority of murders are committed by people who KNOW each other. And Alcohol is often a factor...it's harder to kill someone with a set of (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Again with the "Jeffersonian" speak. I would point out that Jefferson livd 200+ years ago and some of the ideas from that time may not be valid today. Again (and again and again) it is your national forces that's protecting your 'freedom and (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Protection through deterrence. Ask any criminal whom they would rather robb-- an armed person or an unarmed person. Of course it's true that guns can be lethal-- that is precisely why they are effective deterrents. (...) You are assuming that (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Okay, fine -- if your point is that the purpose of a gun is to kill or destroy a thing, then that's basically an undisputed fact. That it is the only utility of the gun is a separate matter. I still think that the gun's power for destruction is the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Peace without freedom is oppression and/or slavery for "the good of society." (...) Except that most of the Black Market guns come from overseas smuggling, not domestic theft. It is cheaper, easier, and safer on a large scale. -Mike Petrucelli (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You're right, I should know to phrase things better. All of the data I have seen everywhere (save the occasional pro-gun loony website that shows a positive benefit to greater availability of guns) shows there is no correlation between the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well, besides being logical and such, there would be less deaths by hammers if there were less hammers. Just as, as John points out, there would be less deaths by cars if there were less cars. Do I need a study to show me the infallible logic (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Maybe I just haven't seen the right studies or something, but you have no real proof or data to support that statement, do you? It's just fuzzy anti-gun speak that doesn't deal with actual issues but with imagined public safety protections. I (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Lets look at homicides due to guns in each situation, shall we? Because you saw something somewhere and the 'whole arguement is completely invalid'? Mike, you're better than that. Dave K (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Reading comprehension 101--the purpose of a car is not to cause any harm. The purpose of a gun is. If you want to weigh in on *accidental* deaths of automobiles, then we're off on a differnt topic. Shooting someone with a gun is not an (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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This is a kind of digression, I think...this thread seems to be going all over the place. =) (...) Which provides support for the idea of socialized medicine, because if the health services needed to recover from an injury are free they cannot be (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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