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(...) I give up. Why? I've never been in favor of it. Or government aid to anyone else except in certain very special situations. ++Lar (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) 100% (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Do these poeple not all tend to group together in readiness for the day the FBI comes to get them and take away their rights? Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) I may well. My US geogrphy is poor. (...) OK, who is john bircher? Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) It is based the a serialisation of a book by Jon Ronson : (URL) read serialisation of the book and heard an interview with him in the BBC. He is clear that those who were at Ruby Ridge and Waco are "heroes of the libertarian movement". (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: New Brickbay promotion
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(...) I've seen indications that it may be a word derived from the trading port of Alexandria, where Egyptian traders' interactions with Europeans gave rise both to the "gypsy" and "gypping" concepts. This is supposedly because at the time Europeans (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Sanctions (was: Libertarian Propaganda)
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(...) Maybe I should explain the sanctions against Iraq better. It's not about trade with America, it's not about business with America, it's about starving and killing innocent men, women and children and destroying the infrastructure of Iraq. The (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: New Brickbay promotion
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(...) And even if it were not derived from "Gypsy", as long as there is any possibility that people might be offended, it is probably safer not to use the term. "Renege", which is actually derived from the Latin renegare, meaning to deny, comes to (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Sanctions (was: Libertarian Propaganda)
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(...) debate. (...) to (...) place (...) foreign (...) to (...) So if trade is bad, then shouldn't the Iraqis be grateful that they are sanctioned? Now they don't have to worry about American economic imperialists exploiting their labor and natural (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We may all be Lego collectors, but Lego isn't a Beanie-Baby style collectable
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TYPO IN MY PREVIOUS POST, PLEASE CORRECT: (...) I meant "I did NOT call LEGO collectors...etc" I mistakenly left out the NOT in that sentence. Let it be clear that I did NOT call LEGO collectors materialistic, greedy or immoral. Dan (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) I mean dominating other nations through unethical trading practicing or harsh sanctions or expoitating human labor and natural resources of other nations. There's no morality in using force to "defend" our greedy business ventures and economic (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We may all be Lego collectors, but Lego isn't a Beanie-Baby style collectable
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(...) I said "whatever" because I sensed you had more to say on the matter, which you obviously do. Did I not say "everyone has their thing" and for collectors "to collect away and enjoy their collection"? How much more inclusive would you like me (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: New Brickbay promotion
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(...) He is correct. From Dictionary.com: gyp also gip (jp) Slang tr.v. gypped, also gipped gyp·ping, gip·ping gyps, gips To deprive (another) of something by fraud; cheat or swindle. n. 1. A fraud or swindle. 2. One who defrauds; a swindler. (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) In the good old days it was colonialism and empire building--theft and occupation of other lands and exploitation of the native people and resources. We can't do that anymore today, everybody is watching everybody, so we build an economic (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) Heh. That reminds me of my favorite footnote... In the introduction to Struggle for Mastery in Europe, AJP Taylor says something about European diplomats of the time being generally honest. Then in the footnote, he says something like, "It is (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) It's the COBOL equivalent (minus the nuances about pre/post incrementation) to ++Lar (increment Lar by 1 in C++) Try this then... 10 SET L = L + 1 (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) The meaning of alliance in 1914 was already different than that in the 1780s. The point in 1914 that caused the war was very simply and plainly--as several recent studies and unearthed documents have confirmed--that the German leadership (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) <snip> (...) Well, yes and no. While it may be easier to project power now than then, it was already easier in 1914, and I would argue that entangling alliances made WW I flare up worse and faster than if it had been just Austro Hungary (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) Yeah, I was hoping Gorman would get the nomination myself. Assasination is probably not something most Libertarians would agree with, and I'm sure it's not in the platform. I think his idea was to put bounties on people, like, $1 million for (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) I hadn't realized that Libertarians endorsed state-sponsored killing of anyone, which would be the most likely source of this kind of assassination attempt (other than attempts internal to that nation.) In addition, Harry Browne is neither a (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes (...) As is the ability to keep tabs with one's home nation in microseconds rather than months. The reason I mention this, and the reason I basically reject the "entangled alliances" caution, is (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) policies (...) and (...) Well, exactly what our national interests are is certainly a matter for debate. I was just saying that whatever we decide they are, it is fine to use force to protect them. But if by economic imperialism, you mean free (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) Somewhat, yes. Largely? Not sure. Certainly the ability to rain defeat on your enemy 12000 miles away in a matter of a few hours is a major difference, though. (...) I don't give deific status to anyone or anything (other than, perhaps, (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) But there's a reason that the past is in the past. The world as Jefferson (whose idea of property, by the way, included certain individuals who were not duly compensated for their labor in his service) perceived it is largely irrelevant to the (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) Dan: Permit me to take a guess, both for clarity's sake and also to make sure that I understand what he's saying. He's referring not to the "inalienable" rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, but rather the (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We may all be Lego collectors, but Lego isn't a Beanie-Baby style collectable
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(...) You said "whatever", suggesting that you didn't agree. I restated it in hopes that you would clarify if you do or don't agree that inclusiveness is good. (...) Not that you disagree with what? (...) Great, (aside from the loaded words) but I (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Which "libertarian" white supremacists were these? The viewpoints are totally incompatible. That's twice in this thread you've made this false connection. ++Lar (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Which "libertarian" white supremacists were these? The viewpoints are totally incompatible. That's twice in this thread you've made this false connection. ++Lar (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) Economic imperialism, whatever that might be, surely doesn't fall within *this* libertarian's definition of what an appropriate national interest ought to be. Can you define what you mean a bit more? What I think Mark is getting at is that the (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Which compounds are these? I'm not familiar with any such "libertarian" compounds. ++Lar (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) And what is our national interest, besides economic imperialism? (...) What are our national interests, besides economic imperialism? (...) Perhaps I misunderstand you, but are you saying that only Americans have rights, such as those of (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Idaho...?! I've been to Idaho, these folks don't offer much threat. Are you sure you didn't mean Michigan? Besides, most of the white supremacists I've come across tend to be John Bircher folks... Just helping you fan the flames... Cheers, - (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) A good point with a debatable example. (...) Another good point, but it misses to a degree. People turn to violence when they feel disenfranchised for whatever reason - the Latasha Harlin/Rodney King one-two punch resulted in riots in Los (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) As a card-carrying Libertarian, the foreign policy plank is probably the part of the platform I disagree with the most. Regardless of what domestic policies we persue (libertarian ones, I hope), our national interest doesn't change. Now, I (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda
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(...) It really annoys me when people clamor for a "smaller government." The first things to get cut are usually civil services, government publications, and the like. As an example, many years ago, the Coast Pilot division had some 25 or more (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | (canceled)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) What "set McVeigh off" may well have been the paranoia which surrounds these events. You should not forget that McVeigh and those at Ruby Ridge had links with libertarian white supremacists. The fact that the FBI has been clumsy in the past, (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Isn't that supposed to be what set McVeigh off in the first place (Waco, Ruby Ridge)? (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We may all be Lego collectors, but Lego isn't a Beanie-Baby style collectable
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(...) I'm glad my "elaboration" was helpful, and I hope I am clear now. <snipped discussion> (...) Sounds good to me, but why do you feel it is necessary to repeat yourself? Are you sure you are not addressing me? Have I mocked someone or done (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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From my UK perspective, perhaps the best way to “prevent the next Timothy McVeigh” is to crack down on the over-armed libertarian (although some are also anti-semitic /white supremacists) "militiamen" compounds which populate hilltops in places (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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