 | | When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Derick Bulkley
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| | | Be warned: serious ranting below. I'm awfully tired of notices posted to marketplace.buy-sell-trade, stating something like: "big Lego for sale.. ...this is NOT an auction... ...highest offer received after..." etc. This isn't an auction? It sure is (...) (25 years ago, 1-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | I'm with you. These are auctions. However, the powers that be have already ruled that single round sealed bid auctions are OK for b-s-t. Sorry, all my shrubbery is in use at the moment. (25 years ago, 1-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | (...) Really? That's weird - Todd's a really smart guy. How could he be dead wrong on this issue? (25 years ago, 1-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —James Brown
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| | | | | | | (...) He's not dead wrong, he's decided otherwise. For an insight into his logic, see: (URL) gives some of his points. I know he's made others, but I couldn't find them easily. As an aside, I agree with Larry and Derrick. SRSB auctions are not (...) (25 years ago, 1-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | (...) When you see an OBO in the newspaper and you call someone up and make an offer, you don't know who you're competing against either. OBO's are "sealed bid auctions" too. They're the same thing. But they're actually not auctions in spirit. (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —James Brown
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| | | | | | | | (...) If you insist. :) But to me, an auction is anything where the final price is determined by 1 seller and multiple (potential) buyers. So, yes, OBO's and SB auctions are the same thing. Auctions. <grin, duck> The difference to me is as much one (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | (...) So ticket scalping in the back parket lot is an auction? Selling a 20-gallon aquarium at a garage sale is an auction? An stock market IPO is an auction? Those are all things where the final price is determined by 1 seller and multiple (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) A sealed-bid auction is a *DEGENERATE CASE* of an auction. They're only known as "auctions" because some bozo once upon a time many years ago called them auctions. The spirit of an auction is to solicit bids and use those bids in turn to (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Chris Ernest Hall
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| | | | | | (...) I would agree with this for a single-time sale. But for multiple items (like a securities auction, which is something I've learned a little bit about in the last year) sealed-bid auctions are perfectly reasonable for some types of (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) The gray gets grayer -- and, if I'm understand you correctly, then -- WOW. So (this is a question) there are types of sales in which each sale in an of itself isn't really an auction (because people aren't competing and counter-bidding), but (...) (25 years ago, 3-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | (...) Are they notifying potential buyers of current offers and using the current offers to solicit progressively higher bids? If so, then it's an auction in spirit. (...) I think the key word there is "bidder," which, in the context of an actual (...) (25 years ago, 1-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | (...) Does the AHD have a separate entry for "sealed-bid auction"? What does it say for "animal"? Is a "stuffed animal" (as in teddy-bear, not taxidermy :) an animal any more or less than a "sealed-bid auction" is an auction? stuffed animal eye (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Richard Franks
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| | | | | (...) Potentially more annoying are sales that when you enquire about the item you get the reply, "You were the first to ask about this item so it should be yours, but someone else asked about it too so I'm going to auction it off instead." Richard (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) This gets up my nose too. (1) I tend to think a bit less of the seller after they do that(2). There is an instance of that going on right now, although I shall omit most of the details... someone offered some things, not thinking they were (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) Just curious, how do people feel about "I'm thinking of selling XYZ. If I get a huge response, I will auction it, otherwise I will come back with a price, and sell to the first offer"? How do you conduct trades? Do you trade for the "best (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Richard Franks
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| | | | | | | | (...) It's a bit of a waste of time, but it is *open*. I can choose to deal with that person - I know exactly what they intend to do, or I can walk away. Being open is the best thing as far as I am concerned. If the seller, mentioned earlier in the (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | | (...) At those rates, I'll trade you some monkeys for pirate minifigs and islander hair pieces... :-) :-) :-) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) that (...) open (...) Now to somewhat answer my own question. I sort of did this with my advertisement that I was seeking interest in parts from 5978 Sphynx Secret Surprise. I got a bunch of responses, (...) (25 years ago, 3-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) I always admit I'm wrong once I've been shown it conclusively. In this case, I agree with the whole of your post above (some snipped). But disagree about being wrong about the essence of a "sealed bid auction" and what it really is or is not. (...) (25 years ago, 3-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) BTW, one thing which hasn't been brought up yet (that I've seen) is the labels for the newsgroups... lugnet.market.auction -> implies auctions lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade -> implies buying, selling, trading, negotiating, bartering, etc. The (...) (25 years ago, 3-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Steve Martin
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| | | | | (...) Actually, I just had a even screwier variation on this. I had an email solicitation that follows (minus identifying details): My name is Chris. I have set 4555 Frieght Loading Station and 4537 Twin Tank Transporter, due to finances I have to (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | I'd go with bad manners and you were not overreacting. But then, that's just me. Steve Martin wrote: <ersatz auction story> (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Bill Katz
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| | | | | | | | Larry Pieniazek (lar@voyager.net) wrote: : I'd go with bad manners and you were not overreacting. But then, that's : just me. : Steve Martin wrote: : <ersatz auction story> Definitely bad manners. I had a similar experience recently when buying a (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Bryan Wong
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| | | | | | | (...) I don't think you were over reacting. I'd be pretty pissed if that happened to me too. Let's say I was selling something for $100 (not auctioning) and you agreed to pay me that amount. Then someone else offers me $150. It would be very unfair (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) First, I'd like to say that I'm in agreement with everyone else, that's an invalid way to conduct business. The note in response was dead on. In the scenario that Bryan writes above, if I were the seller, I would offer to buy it back from the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | (...) Not overreacting. Definitely poor manners. (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Chris Dee
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| | | | | | (...) I think your reaction was entirely justified. But being one of only a few Chris' active on LUGNET and eBay I resent the potential bad publicity you have given to anyone named Chris and any doubts you may have put in the mind of anyone dealing (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Steve Martin
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| | | | | | | (...) nothing (...) verify (...) this. (...) I just wanted to back up Chris Dee's assertion that it wasn't him. I just used the person's first name so he would know (actually, I guess it could be a she) that it was him when he read it. But I didn't (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) Agreed: Newbies take note, Chris is one of the good guys. If there were any tendency to not stick to deals, I would tend to say it shades in the "well I can't charge you that much after all, so let me do some discounting" direction... (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Mark Lindsey
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| | | | | | | (...) nothing (...) verify (...) this. (...) I will vouch for Chris. We had a deal completely outside of any sanctioned forum and he not only sent the items, he actually waited until I could afford the piece. That is class and a fine example of how (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Christopher Lannan
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| | | | | | (...) nothing (...) verify (...) this. (...) It wasn't me either! Chris L. (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | So now we're going to get every Chris out there declaiming? Prolly would have been better if the origninal poster used an obviously fictitious name (Zaphod Beeblebrox, anyone?) or no name at all. Ok, prove me wrong, whoever the actual Chris is, post (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Giulio Ferrari
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| | | | | (...) My personal opinion is that it's not an auction, for the following reasons: 1) You have "1 seller and multiple (potential) buyers". But, hey, this is a generical market law, almost everything someone decides to sell is available to buy for (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) I'm not sure that it always favors the seller. I think it depends on the item and the seller. The state of North Carolina runs a weekly sealed bid auction for surplus property (actually they include some jobs also, they occaisionally "sell" (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —David Goeb
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| | | | In lugnet.market.theory, Frank Filz writes: [snip] (...) eBay's proxy can be used by your alter-ego/shill too. Not that I have seen it but I have read some rather intersting How-To and HTHTY posts in newsgroups about the abuse of dual accounts and (...) (25 years ago, 3-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | | | | | Re: When is "Not an Auction" really an auction? —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) Of course shill bidding is not unique to proxy bidding systems, though it does provide a way for the shill to obtain more information about your maximum bid if they over bid you, cancel the bid, and then re-bid just under your maximum bid. On (...) (25 years ago, 3-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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