 | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | (...) a (...) Short of throwing together a few sketches of some of the body parts, I haven't gotten very far with a minifig-scale version. A few thoughts: Due to the relatively blocky shape of the A-10, it should be easier than most fighters to (...) (24 years ago, 10-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Ron Sedlmeyer
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| | | | | (...) The tool is called a sander :) (24 years ago, 10-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | (...) to (...) Ouch. (24 years ago, 10-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | (...) YES --- a main reason why I'm working with this model (besides the fact I love the air craft). (...) Yep. Yep. It's definitely going to be the back half. The front part is what I'm really having problems with. (...) The UCS x-wing has some (...) (24 years ago, 10-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Fredrik Glöckner
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| | | | (...) Wouldn't a cannon made from the 3x3 medium technic pulley be a bit too large for minifig scale? How about simply using a single black technic axle? It doesn't have six edges, but it has four, which may give the correct impression. Or have I (...) (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Mark Sandlin
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| | | | (...) It's a 30mm with seven barrels. But I agree the technic pulley would be too large. sometimes I make gatling cannons with a 2x2 turntable, and a couple of 2x2 round plates with a handful of 1x1 cylinders to simulate the "barrels." you only end (...) (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | (...) The Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II's primary gun is the General Electric GAU- 8/A 30-mm cannon. And Mark is correct, it does have 7 barrels. The A- 10 "Warthog" is also capable of carring up to 15,950 lbs. of weapons. The aircraft's FAC load (...) (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | (...) They're still working on that? I worked on that project back in the late 80's. The A-16. Sponsored by General Dynamics (which provided two aircraft, a new one and what they called the B2 - the second B-model built which they used for a (...) (24 years ago, 18-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | Hi, Terry! Long time, no see! (...) I saw a video documentary where a large chunk of the leading edge of an A-10 wing ripped off during flight, and dropped straight through the engine. This would've killed any other aircraft, but the pilot was able (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | | (...) Hi Sproat! Yeah, sorta been quiet for a while. Guess I've been gone and forgotten. (...) massive (...) pilot (...) area (...) I saw that too. Forget where. Might've seen it as a training film for FOD, or on Discovery channel or something. The (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | | | | (...) *Almost* forgotten. I was *this* close, too... :-, Just kidding. I've been hearing about your LDraw-admin feats behind-the-scenes, so I figured you'd post again some time soon... Glad to see ya again. Think you'll be putting out new models (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) post (...) new (...) The biggest LDraw-admin feat was having Steve take over. :-) (Thanks again, Steve!) Having been drawn into the whole Kidvention thing (a fun, though sunburned, time), I find myself *trying* to read lugnet more. The only (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, of course you can't go thicker for airfoils with a supersonic aircraft, and of course making it thicker has no really disadvantages for a low speed aircraft (and also you should have to make it thick for these low speeds, to obtain (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) wings. (...) The A-10 doesn't have to worry about going supersonic. :-) The wing has a substantial amount of curvature over the top surface, better for generating high lift, I think. (...) Busy with life in general. Lugnet got to be too much (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yah, right. As *if*. (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | | | (...) :-) I see a lot of new names around here. They probably have no idea who I am. So I can jump right into a thread somewhere and throw my opinions around and have them wonder "who the *#@%! is this pinhead?" -- Terry K -- (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | (...) LOL :) Its good to have you back. I know talking to people in prep for Kidvention, when I would mention you most would ask how you're doing, cause no one has heard from you in a while :) It was good hanging out w/you for those few days, and I (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Thanks. Kidvention was fun. A bit of a chore at times, but meeting and talking with all the AFOL's and park employees, and (most) of the park guests was a lot of fun. Only had two truly annoying kids, and that just took a lot of patience. :-) (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't talk about Bram and I that way ;) j/k :) (...) Ya you do. Mike tells me he's going to Phoenix in a few weeks on his sales trip. If I knew for sure you wanted that element catalog I'd have left it with him to (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) LOL! Good one! I forgot about *that* aspect. :-) But I did mean two park guest kids being little monsters. -- Terry K -- (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Hey, Terry's back! Whoa! --Todd (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Whoa? Does that mean I have to stop? :-) Hat's off to you Todd for keeping up lugnet and everything else you do, and I sincerely hope that Suze gets better and everything works out. -- Terry K -- (24 years ago, 26-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | (...) And we'd just tell the newbies, "That's what happens to you after two years of handling LDraw updates." :) Steve (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Mike Timm
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| | | | | | (...) Well, actually since you mention it... :^) According to the June 2000 issue of Airman (1)(a USAF magazine) they are developing something with a WEE bit more power :^) Its a 747-400 with a laser, a BIG laser no less, supposedly its for (...) (24 years ago, 23-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jason Ellis
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| | | | | | The laser in question is known as ABL or AirBorne Laser. Its built by a team consisting of Boeing, Lockheed and TRW. Its purpose is to shoot down theater ballistic missiles while they are still in the enemy's territory. Boeing is providing the (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | (...) I seem to recall that they had a successful firing a few years back from a static ground position (i.e. it only pointed up), where they blinded a test satellite. I'm not exactly sure if this is the same weapon system, but Lockeed and TRW were (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | (...) I think you are right. I heard about this ABL thing during my "rocket scientist" (heh heh... yes I was one of them:-) days, so it was at least 5 years ago, so it's been around for a while. And again I'm pretty sure that I read it was intended (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | (...) The Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II's primary gun is the General Electric GAU- 8/A 30-mm cannon. And Mark is correct, it does have 7 barrels. The A- 10 "Warthog" is also capable of carring up to 15,950 lbs. of weapons. The aircraft's FAC load (...) (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | | (...) They also come in light gray, dark gray, desert brown, black, and (I kid you not) I've seen one painted *red*. I'm guessing here, but they probably get them out of the factory in some grayish color, then paint them later... (...) Isn't this (...) (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | | | (...) do, (...) ground- (...) I've have not heard this rumored replacement of the a-10 by the f16 falcon. I challenge the rumor and would like to see press release proof. Your comments jsproat are spoken like true A-10 lover. I'm closer to loving (...) (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | | | (...) (URL) - jsproat (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | | | (...) cool -- problem is I don't have those pieces. I'll come up with something. Thanks for the link. - Marc (URL) [ UH-60 L ] (URL) [ UH-60 C ] (URL) [SEAL Team 9] (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Michael Nelson
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| | | | | | | | I'd build an A-10 out of light grey and use dark grey and black for the details. For a canopy I figure there is no perfect way to do one so I'd us the naboo fighter canopy and then make the back part of it slope into the fuselage, kinda like they (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Kyle Keppler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Or you could take two of those canopies and put one facing forward and another backwards creating a bubble canopie. --kyle (URL)In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Marc Cook writes: (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | | | (...) That would work, and it has been done, but not for an A-10 Warthog. The model it was done on is Thad Jantzi's F-16 Fighting Falcon. (It would also work on most other aircraft in the USAF inventory - The F-15, the F-14, the F-5's front piece..) (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Shaun Sullivan
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| | | | | | | | | Maybe use the star wars low-sloped canopy for the front half, and the Slave I steep-sloped canopy piece for the back half? It might be a little blocky, though. Hmmm -s (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) though. (...) I am assuming that by 'low-sloped canopy' you mean the canopy that can be found on the X-Wing? The biggest problem with that is: A) The friction-attachment pieces on the back of the X-Wing's canopy B) The little midget-bumps that (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Some people unkindly say I'm not that bright, but... I'm sort of missing why this is in ***off-topic***.debate??? ++Lar Assistant Chief exorcizer (after Frank) of incorrectly set followups and general Lugnet nuisance extraordinare... (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Christopher Masi
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| | | | | | | | Actually, I think you have it backwards. The front of the Hog's canopy is sloped steeply from the nose to the top, and the back of the canopy slopes gently from the top of the canopy to the fuselage. Chris (...) (24 years ago, 15-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | | | (...) sloped (...) Note if you will the metal bars in an oval in the front of the canopy. That would be best represented by the X-Wing canopy. ~Drew "Luke" Lawrence (24 years ago, 15-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Christopher Masi
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| | | | | | | | That is true. I had not thought about the metal bars, I was just thinking about the general shape. I thought someone was suggesting a 2x4-slope-from-2-dee...eep-on-top windshield as the back end of the canopy, and I thought that would be to steep (...) (24 years ago, 18-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Greg Howell
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| | | | | | | | (...) Okay heres my take on this. I'm going to give you Ldraw numbers so have your parts list handy... Naboo canopy for the back. It's the only one. I think you could try 2437, its the windsheild that comes with most town aircraft. On top of the put (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | Um, not to be a pain, but I don't think this discussion belongs in lugnet.off-topic.debate... It probably doesn't belong in lugnet.starwars anymore either (and does it really need to be in lugnet.general?) Follow-ups to: lugnet.admin.general (I wish (...) (24 years ago, 24-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | | (...) True, but many a-10 are gray. Example: (URL) facts there also. I like the rotating 2x2 pieces with 1x1 cylinders for the gatlin gun. 4 technic axels with small cap pieces might look good too. Like this (but closer) : (URL) if you're bored (...) (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Ah..... just the prototypes, and the pre-production models - A-10's that have seen some USAF service are almost always in a camoflauge of some sort. ~Drew "Luke" Lawrence ~Another Lego Military Fan (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) That makes sense -- or training planes are gray. Well did you get a chance to see the Lego SEAL Team yet? - Marc (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Bob Parker
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I live near Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona. They fly A-10 Warthogs and their primary mission is to train new pilots. The paint scheme is a uniform light gray (called Ghost Gray I think) with low-vis markings. I bet light gray (...) (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I would but parts will probably be the limiting factor. The color problem does not bother me. The idea here is to build a model that represents the a-10's shape as best as possible. Keeping the model all one color is ideal. The green could be (...) (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Clones! ACK! There are only a FEW clone pieces which I'll use - M-16 Assault Rifles. (Lego sized.) They are extremely hard to come by, though... I'll have to go to a Toys-R-Us and see if I can find some. (They'd ROCK for a SEAL team.) Jeff (...) (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I (...) take- (...) team.) (...) As a purist my SEAL Team uses 100% geniune lego parts....but they suck! (URL) love to see your F-4 Phantom when it's done. Do you have any links to a real one handy? - Marc (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Sure! (URL) "Luke" Lawrence (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Mark Sandlin
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Not necessarily. Since Lego trees and "ground" are molded in green, you simply use the green bricks, therefore it becomes camouflaged. :^) ~Mark (24 years ago, 12-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —David "Scooter" Lukens
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| | | | | | | | (...) I have to say that I'm very impressed. I loved the lighting you did with the pictures through the helicopter. Did you have to do anything special so that the open areas inside the helicopter didn't destroy the structural integrity of the (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Structural Intergrity of the Uh-60 (WAS) Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | | | (...) Thank you.... The open cargo bay area did pose some engineering problems. After using under wedged support pieces and the fact the roof over the cargo bay connects on over 32 1x1 points and that the floor is rather thick the model can be (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | Because of the earlier discussion about the original aircraft, the A-10, not the Lego version. (We were discussing the USAF's policy of camoflauge.) ~Drew "Luke" Lawrence (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | | (...) Well I think there is really no easy way to make a realistic a-10 canopy with lego pieces. the naboo fighter canopy can work as the back, but the front i might have use a basic town car windshield.... it's the missiles and bombs I'm going to (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.build)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Drew Lawrence
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| | | | | | (...) That would look just downright stupid! The town car windshield is square, while the Naboo fighter's canopy is curved over. (...) Take a look at the missiles and bombs I've got on my Harrier. Pretty simple to do, really - just requires a ton of (...) (24 years ago, 14-Jul-00, to lugnet.build)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | (...) Really? I recently (a few years ago) put my head up to the muzzle (good thing it was parked and unloaded, eh? :-) and it was *totally* huge. 20 or 30mm per barrel is probably close, but the cannon assembly is much bigger. The 2x2 would (...) (24 years ago, 11-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Marc Cook
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| | | | | (...) Ah yes --- I like the idea of using 7 technic axels with a rubber band. While a solution -- I falter back and forth with the idea of using "other than lego" solutions to model design problems. it's a moral issue perhaps. =) - Marc (24 years ago, 13-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | | (...) Not if you have a decent Technic set! :-, Lots of them have rubber bands, esp.ecially the recent Star Wars droid sets. The way I see it is, if they're in the box, they're Lego. Which open up the possiblity of using the paper, cardboard, (...) (24 years ago, 13-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | (...) Some might think it would have been a *good* thing if that gun was loaded. :-) And that gun is huge. I forget how long it is, but it is long. But you really don't have to worry about the length, as all that is really visible is the very end. (...) (24 years ago, 18-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | (...) Ouch. ;-) 'Course, if it went off at that moment, they'd never find my head, or even my torso, for that matter. (...) We're still unpacking from the move, but I'll try to find it and give you an exact reference. I could even throw a photocopy (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Building the A10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" —Terry Keller
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| | | | (...) loaded. :-) (...) Actually, a blast like that would probably pretty much vaporize the head, but the body would remain. Might be a little messy... (...) to (...) Great mag. Always a good read. I might pop over to the local library and see if (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build, lugnet.general)
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