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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Carl Nelson wrote: snip of the points I think we've identified as mutually un-convinceable (...) Definitely. The analogy I was looking for but couldn't recall was the frog in the pan of boiling water. If you drop him (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) 'Twas ever thus... We are all of us prostitutes and it's always about price. -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) Paying one's "fair share" is only relevant to WHERE one owes it. I think you are failing to understand precisely why the royal family of England owns so much property in the U.S. -- because it's cheaper for them here than in their own country! (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) All right, but the point remains. Under my example, the low-wealth person is participating in the tax framework, just as readily as if you'd assigned some low figure as an appropriate level of taxation. I don't think it's material to quibble (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) Hey, you stinker--I've told you before that if you don't actually agree with me, you're supposed to pretend that you do. And anyway, I don't use strawman arguments--my fallacy was the false dilemma, thankyouverymuch. 8^) Anyway, I didn't quite (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) Et tu, Dave!? This is the same "love it or leave it" crap that one normally hears from the right. It is also a straw man, there is of course the alternative of simply staying and trying to "improve" the system. Improve is in quotes because one (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

church
(score: 0.426)

		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) But that just postpones the argument, rather than resolving it. (I continue this point below.) (...) Here we may be at a crux of our disagreement. Why doesn't the public good qualify as charity? Are there circumstances under which it might (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) If $10 per anum was considered a satisfactory level of payment, then surely a greater tax (sales tax, etc.) is at least as satisfactory? Indeed, I believe the proposal suggested that welfare (gleaned from taxes) be provided to the poor so that (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) No moreso than if they pay the $10 per annum tax that you proposed. And I would suggest the person in my example is less of a squatter, since yearly sales tax (plus hidden taxes like tariffs, etc.) would almost certainly exceed $10. Dave! (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) Everyone who buys anything (excepting a few items like food and, in some cases, clothing) already pays taxes, so this particular fallacy as you frame it does not exist in the governor's reasoning. Dave! (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) And what, exactly, does it do for us? If charity is performed to achieve a space in heaven, then it's a simple economic transaction designed to favor oneself with a payoff disproportionate to the act of charity. (...) On the contrary--public (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
Rearranged slightly to make a point (...) All good. Assuming you did your research, that is. (...) Terrible idea. Why would you want to do that?(1) ALL your examples above are worthy charities (based on the assumption that you as donor have (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) Of course, if that is true, we're also all clients. Do we gain both ways? ;-) Pedro (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) But they don't 'dodge a tax burden' here. If they have land here, then they pay property tax here. Further, if they own land here, chances are they visit said land and therefore spend other monies here as well. Whether or not they spend more (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

church
(score: 0.426)

		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote: <snip> (...) I concur--I just wanted the clarity. (...) The idea of 'pay what you owe' is ingrained into my nature by my parents. Those folks who 'take the system for granted' without putting into the (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) Charity is absolutely a Christian (and most other religions', at that) value. The problem is, the government is not a charitable organization. God wants us to give money not because He needs it (televangelism aside <g>) but for what the act of (...) (21 years ago, 11-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
(...) Then it's a matter of degrees--the more you pay in taxes the less you are a squatter? Dave K (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind!
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Carl Nelson wrote: <snip> (...) I don't believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me. After all, he was the walrus.... I could be the walrus... still wouldn't change the fact that I don't own a car... "...I recall Central (...) (21 years ago, 13-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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		Re: moonbase
Amy & All, (...) Heh. Jason, Trevor, Larry, and Nikolai have built some already, and I think others are planning / in construction of some already. I know that I will have nothing built (The drywall was delivered already - the basement looks empty (...) (22 years ago, 16-Aug-02, to lugnet.org.us.michlug)

amy
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		Re: Altruism is a bad idea? (was Re: Finally some church/state mingling that I can really get behind
(...) Just my 2c Altruism: Carpooling (with some non-car-owners too). Charity: Picking up a hitchhiker (now and then). Best DaveG (21 years ago, 15-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

church
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