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| |
|
This is not directed at Tim, but rather some of the whiners that responed to his
post above...
When I first saw that BrickShelf was down, I was all gung-ho to see what I could
do to help bring it back up. As the host for Classic-Castle, I do have have a
dedicated server and excess bandwidth, so some help could have been provided.
Now, after seeing the reaction here and elsewhere, I am rapidly starting not to
care if you whiney vultures ever get your photos back.
Kevin provided a basically free service to everyone for YEARS. Everyone used it
without much thought tot he costs involved. Sure, he could have handled this
latest episode better, but for now none of us know the circumstances involved.
I know that *I* would certainly have grown tired of supporting a site for a
bunch of ungrateful users.
And as for the supposed "Lego Community"? Useless. Instead of being a true
community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what to
we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
Do something or quit your complaining.
Troy
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Troy, thank you for posting this - much more eloquently than I would have been
able to.
Dan
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In lugnet.general, Dan Boger wrote:
> Troy, thank you for posting this - much more eloquently than I would have been
> able to.
>
> Dan
I second that, Thanks Troy. I would say more, but I am currently busy
re-uploading pics for my store. I am also happy to pay for the service
brickshelf has provided. I assumed that Brickshelf was part of LUGNET, and that
my donation was to help both, but I guess I was wrong. Darren
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|
In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
> This is not directed at Tim, but rather some of the whiners that responed to his
> post above...
>
> When I first saw that BrickShelf was down, I was all gung-ho to see what I could
> do to help bring it back up. As the host for Classic-Castle, I do have have a
> dedicated server and excess bandwidth, so some help could have been provided.
>
> Now, after seeing the reaction here and elsewhere, I am rapidly starting not to
> care if you whiney vultures ever get your photos back.
>
> Kevin provided a basically free service to everyone for YEARS. Everyone used it
> without much thought tot he costs involved. Sure, he could have handled this
> latest episode better, but for now none of us know the circumstances involved.
> I know that *I* would certainly have grown tired of supporting a site for a
> bunch of ungrateful users.
>
> And as for the supposed "Lego Community"? Useless. Instead of being a true
> community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what to
> we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
>
> Do something or quit your complaining.
>
> Troy
Pardon me, but if you provide a MAJOR service to a community that a huge number
of people use, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS FREE OR NOT, it is pure politeness
and respect to GIVE WARNING BEFORE YOU DISCONTINUE SERVICE. Honestly, to do
otherwise says that you don't give a shit about the community members who used
the service.
As to the reason it was taken down, I don't know. I seriously doubt it was
hacked as has been speculated, and Kevin DOES have a history of making drastic
changes with no warning. In addition, he has publicly stated that people should
always be keeping local copies of images and not to use the site as your sole
repository.
Since maj is up and running, and it uses the same account system (even the hit
counters are combined), I don't see any reason not to move the files over there.
I know maj uses far more bandwidth than BS does, so I'd be hard-pressed to say
it was a bandwidth issue. And if it WERE a cost issue, it would be FAR better
to transition it to a pay site of some kind. Many people would still use it.
All I can say is that I'm glad anything up there that I don't have on my machine
already, I don't really care about. I will miss being able to view models by
Japanese builders, however.
Jeff
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In lugnet.general, Jeff Stembel wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
| |
This is not directed at Tim, but rather some of the whiners that responed to
his post above...
|
|
**Snip**
| |
| |
And as for the supposed “Lego Community”? Useless. Instead of being a true
community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what
to we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
Do something or quit your complaining.
Troy
|
Pardon me, but if you provide a MAJOR service to a community that a huge
number of people use, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS FREE OR NOT, it is pure
politeness and respect to GIVE WARNING BEFORE YOU DISCONTINUE SERVICE.
Honestly, to do otherwise says that you don’t give a shit about the community
members who used the service. • **snip**
Jeff
|
Okay, folks--
Troy: Point made. While I am sad that this service has ended, if someone was
running it out of pocket, bless them. I do resent being called a vulture,
however--I have said nothing against a man I never met. That is unkind and
somewhat unfair--and with no information as to the why of a shutdown, is
patiently absurd. All I said was that I hoped Brickshelf was hacked--nothing
more.
Jeff: Point also made. It is respectful for such a major resource to at least
say goodbye and give say, two weeks warning. I have kept all my pics...like I
said, it’s the photo geek in me. I will miss this source of inspiration,
however. I will also miss the pics from LEGO conventions that I could not be at.
Stray thought: what would happen if we lost LUGnet? Or Bricklink? or any number
of other AFOL/LEGO related websites? It gives me pause to think through what we
might wish to consider to help those who keep these kinds of sites afloat. Might
be money, might be time....
Now, for everyone else: regardless of what has happened (and why), my question
is simple: what do we as a community do to replace--and possibly make better--a
repository for MOC pics, LEGO convention pics, etc.?
I guess what I am asking is this: Instead of carping and complaining about what
we’ve lost (for whatever reason), what do we do now--and where do we do it? Can
we make this negative a positive, somehow?
And, do we all need to pitch in a small fee--annual or otherwise--to keep such a
place afloat?
Seems to me that’d be the spirit of “Play Well.”
Play Well and Prosper,
Matthew
“The Brick Detective”
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|
In lugnet.general, Jeff Stembel wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
> >
> > Do something or quit your complaining.
>
> Pardon me, but if you provide a MAJOR service to a community that a huge number
> of people use, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS FREE OR NOT, it is pure politeness
> and respect to GIVE WARNING BEFORE YOU DISCONTINUE SERVICE. Honestly, to do
> otherwise says that you don't give a shit about the community members who used
> the service.
It says nothing of the sort. As a JLUG admin we had a similar decision to make
very recently, and chose the same path. We had no obligation to warn anyone,
even though we had a picture gallery with pics people may not have kept a copy
of. That's just the way things go sometimes. Heck, I even helped Kevin with
monetary support on a couple of occasions and I still don't feel I had any right
to expect a warning.
While I will miss Brickshelf as a resource, and just the occasional random
browse, my main issue is fixing my pages that relied on it. But I should never
have relied on it, so that's my fault anyway, not Kevin's.
And like Troy said, the best thing is to do something instead of just
complaining - the JLUG regulars had a new forum up within hours, and chat within
a few days. And people here called them community misfits.
ROSCO
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| |
|
In lugnet.general, Ross Crawford wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Jeff Stembel wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
> > >
> > > Do something or quit your complaining.
> >
> > Pardon me, but if you provide a MAJOR service to a community that a huge number
> > of people use, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS FREE OR NOT, it is pure politeness
> > and respect to GIVE WARNING BEFORE YOU DISCONTINUE SERVICE. Honestly, to do
> > otherwise says that you don't give a shit about the community members who used
> > the service.
>
> It says nothing of the sort. As a JLUG admin we had a similar decision to make
> very recently, and chose the same path. We had no obligation to warn anyone,
> even though we had a picture gallery with pics people may not have kept a copy
> of. That's just the way things go sometimes. Heck, I even helped Kevin with
> monetary support on a couple of occasions and I still don't feel I had any right
> to expect a warning.
>
> While I will miss Brickshelf as a resource, and just the occasional random
> browse, my main issue is fixing my pages that relied on it. But I should never
> have relied on it, so that's my fault anyway, not Kevin's.
>
> And like Troy said, the best thing is to do something instead of just
> complaining - the JLUG regulars had a new forum up within hours, and chat within
> a few days. And people here called them community misfits.
>
> ROSCO
So how do we fix lugnet post links?
Tim
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In lugnet.general, Tim David wrote:
>
> So how do we fix lugnet post links?
Same as you've always had to do when a site linked here disappeared - repost
with a new link, or live with it.
ROSCO
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In lugnet.general, Ross Crawford wrote:
> And like Troy said, the best thing is to do something instead of just
> complaining - the JLUG regulars had a new forum up within hours, and chat
> within a few days.
And I hear the 'Invite To Chat' function is going to be ready pretty soon too.
Cheers
Richie Dulin
Stajinaria Community Overlooker
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| |
|
In lugnet.general, Ross Crawford wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Jeff Stembel wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
> > >
> > > Do something or quit your complaining.
> >
> > Pardon me, but if you provide a MAJOR service to a community that a huge number
> > of people use, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS FREE OR NOT, it is pure politeness
> > and respect to GIVE WARNING BEFORE YOU DISCONTINUE SERVICE. Honestly, to do
> > otherwise says that you don't give a shit about the community members who used
> > the service.
>
> It says nothing of the sort. As a JLUG admin we had a similar decision to make
> very recently, and chose the same path. We had no obligation to warn anyone,
> even though we had a picture gallery with pics people may not have kept a copy
> of. That's just the way things go sometimes. Heck, I even helped Kevin with
> monetary support on a couple of occasions and I still don't feel I had any right
> to expect a warning.
Different situation; there were issues beyond your control involved with the
loss of data and the lack of backups. In addition, discussion of the situation
was out in the open.
Jeff
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In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
> This is not directed at Tim, but rather some of the whiners that
> responed to his post above...
-snip-
>
> Do something or quit your complaining.
>
> Troy
Well put, Troy, spotlighted.
Kevin owes 'the community' nothing. 'The community' owes brickshelf a lot.
Cheers
Richie Dulin
LEGO Ambassador
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| |
|
Thanks a lot for dragging Kevin out of the flames Troy, I couldn’t agree more.
Now, I don’t know what has happened, but we know that BS was a problem for
Kevin, and he may have good reasons for not wanting to continue it.
However from a community-perspective, it’s a cornerstone of our HISTORY, as many
has said, it’s not our own pictures, but those of others that we’ve bookmarked
or linked to - that isn’t avaliable elsewhere, and may never be...
There must
be a gazillion posts and links all over the internet that is totally worthless
right now - and the idea that it should be possible to reupload/fix even a
fraction of these pictures and links one at a time is simply ridiculusly
unrealistic.
So Tim, if you’re reading this:
There’s plenty of other possibilities for hosting pictures, and I can understand
if you have reasons for wanting to get rid of it, but wouldn’t it be possible to
lock it for further uploads and/or turn it over to somebody else?
If it was locked for further uploads and if we could be “sure” that it stayed
up, I imagine that the traffic would gradually drop as people begin to upload
and link to pictures elsewhere - until only the vital traffic caused by
bookmark-browsing for inspiration was left, together with the occasional hits
from somebody reading up on old posts.
Anyways, Even though I’ve hardly uploaded anything to Brickshelf since I got my
own webpage, I’d like to heartily thank you for hosting our pictures for so
long.
I hope you’re well Kevin, and that it’s still possible to find a less
drastic sollution that everybody can live with.
Cheers NB
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Sorry about the double post here, Troy’s post got me confused about who was
actually behind Brickshelf, so please disregard the one above this.
Damn I hate that you can’t edit your posts here :(
Cheers NB
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| |
|
Thanks a lot for dragging Kevin out of the flames Troy, I couldn’t agree more.
Now, I don’t know what has happened, but we know that BS was a problem for
Kevin, and he may have good reasons for not wanting to continue it.
However from a community-perspective, it’s a cornerstone of our HISTORY, as many
has said, it’s not our own pictures, but those of others that we’ve bookmarked
or linked to - that isn’t avaliable elsewhere, and may never be...
There must
be a gazillion posts and links all over the internet that is totally worthless
right now - and the idea that it should be possible to reupload/fix even a
fraction of these pictures and links one at a time is simply ridiculusly
unrealistic.
So Kevin, if you’re reading this:
There’s plenty of other possibilities for hosting pictures, and I can understand
if you have reasons for wanting to get rid of it, but wouldn’t it be possible to
lock it for further uploads and/or turn it over to somebody else?
If it was locked for further uploads and if we could be “sure” that it stayed
up, I imagine that the traffic would gradually drop as people begin to upload
and link to pictures elsewhere - until only the vital traffic caused by
bookmark-browsing for inspiration was left, together with the occasional hits
from somebody reading up on old posts.
Anyways, Even though I’ve hardly uploaded anything to Brickshelf since I got my
own webpage, I’d like to heartily thank you for hosting our pictures for so
long.
I hope you’re well Kevin, and that it’s still possible to find a less
drastic sollution that everybody can live with.
Cheers NB
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| |
|
In lugnet.general, Niels Bugge wrote:
> However from a community-perspective, it's a cornerstone of our HISTORY, as
> many has said, it's not our own pictures, but those of others that we've
> bookmarked or linked to - that isn't avaliable elsewhere, and may never
> be...¬ There must be a gazillion posts and links all over the internet that
> is totally worthless right now - and the idea that it should be possible to
> reupload/fix even a fraction of these pictures and links one at a time is
> simply ridiculusly unrealistic.
>
> [So Kevin, if you're reading this:]
>
> There's plenty of other possibilities for hosting pictures, and I can
> understand if you have reasons for wanting to get rid of it, but wouldn't it
> be possible to lock it for further uploads and/or turn it over to somebody
> else?
>
> If it was locked for further uploads and if we could be "sure" that it stayed
> up, I imagine that the traffic would gradually drop as people begin to upload
> and link to pictures elsewhere - until only the {vital} traffic caused by
> bookmark-browsing for inspiration was left, together with the occasional hits
> from somebody reading up on old posts.
First, Kevin, you've cost me thousands of dollars. If it weren't for Brickshelf
I'd probably be off doing some boring hobby. Brickshelf was one of the hooks
that drew me in and I'm very glad to be here. For this, I thank you.
Second, as I sit here and look over my list of brickshelf links of good ideas
and then think about the thousands of brickshelf images that are linked from the
lugnet archive, if anything can be done to preserve brickshelf (without further
postings if necessary), I would strongly support/encourage it. Even better would
be publicly viewable, but paid member only posting on brickshelf from here on
out (presumably with Kevin as emeritus administrator, or retaining ownership and
licensing out the site to some sucker or group of suckers foolish enough to take
on the administrative and financial responsibilities).
Third, maybe the days of a custom built photo sharing site have been superseded
by the massive photo sharing sites, but brickshelf has two things that no other
site could ever have. Whatever it is you see on brickshelf, you know it will be
lego related. And brickshelf has been a focal point for the AFOL community, the
site where the majority of AFOL pictures have been posted.
Sure, we can twiddle with the markers on flickr, but that will just increase the
learning curve for a newbe and instead of being front and center, the AFOL will
fade in to the background of flickr. I assume we will also run into problems
posting .ldr, .lxf, .pdf, movies, etc to flickr. Losing the one one stop shop we
have with brickshelf.
So thank you Kevin for providing brickshelf, hopefully it will live on in some
form. And thank you Niels for eloquently expressing your ideas.
Benn
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> Second, as I sit here and look over my list of brickshelf links of good ideas
> and then think about the thousands of brickshelf images that are linked from the
> lugnet archive, if anything can be done to preserve brickshelf (without further
> postings if necessary), I would strongly support/encourage it.
I would be happy if it were possible to buy the entire BS content database on a
set of DVD's or something. Does anyone know how much space the entire BS
archive is? How many 4.7GB DVDs would it take up?
At the very least it would be nice if Kevin could donate the drives that contain
all the BS content to the online community (lugnet, peeron, etc) so that it may
be possible for someone to resruect the site in an archive-only format.
drc
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In lugnet.general, Benn Coifman wrote:
| |
Second, as I sit here and look over my list of brickshelf links of good ideas
and then think about the thousands of brickshelf images that are linked from
the lugnet archive, if anything can be done to preserve brickshelf (without
further postings if necessary), I would strongly support/encourage it. Even
better would be publicly viewable, but paid member only posting on brickshelf
from here on out
|
Amen, brother. And I’m willing to put my $$$ where my mouth is, and I have
emailed Kevin as much.
I thought that it was great that Kevin finally started taking donations, but he
ceased it. It is certainly worth $2.00 a month to me to support Brickshelf.
Heck, throw in another $2.00 for LUGNET. Fiddy bucks a year for sites like
Brickshelf and LUGNET to exist?! Every day, in a New York minute!
I say we flood Kevin with $$$ with some sort of “Save Ferris” fundraiser. We
could scrape up 5 figures in no time.
Come on, Kevin! Give us the word. Give us a PP account addy....
JOHN
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In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
| |
This is not directed at Tim, but rather some of the whiners that responed to
his post above...
When I first saw that BrickShelf was down, I was all gung-ho to see what I
could do to help bring it back up. As the host for Classic-Castle, I do have
have a dedicated server and excess bandwidth, so some help could have been
provided.
Now, after seeing the reaction here and elsewhere, I am rapidly starting not
to care if you whiney vultures ever get your photos back.
Kevin provided a basically free service to everyone for YEARS. Everyone used
it without much thought tot he costs involved. Sure, he could have handled
this latest episode better, but for now none of us know the circumstances
involved. I know that *I* would certainly have grown tired of supporting a
site for a bunch of ungrateful users.
And as for the supposed “Lego Community”? Useless. Instead of being a true
community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what to
we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
Do something or quit your complaining.
Troy
|
Absolutely. We were all guests at his house, if you will. At some point the
party is over and he has a right to turn out the lights and send us home. I see
nothing wrong with his decision. I’m saddened by it, there was lots of
inspiration on the site, but I am viewing it as a challenge now because I have
seen some excellent ideas that I was going to try to duplicate but now I have
to work to create it myself. I see lots of criticism here, and I remember
similar groans over the loss of the instruction gallery a couple of years ago,
but again few people offered to take over the reins. I see mostly people
yelling “foul” or personal offense.
“Ask not what your Brickshelf can do for you, ask what you can do for your
Brickshelf.”
-Scott
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In lugnet.general, Scott Towne wrote:
| |
Absolutely. We were all guests at his house, if you will. At some point the
party is over and he has a right to turn out the lights and send us home.
|
Except that even the worst host would allow his guests to grab their jacket and
car keys before throwing them out the door.
Of course he was within his rights and of course we should be grateful for what
BS was and work to replace it. However, it would have taken very little effort
on his part to write a note here saying it was closing down and we had X days to
retrieve our files.
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| |
|
In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
> This is not directed at Tim, but rather some of the whiners that responed to his
> post above...
>
> When I first saw that BrickShelf was down, I was all gung-ho to see what I could
> do to help bring it back up. As the host for Classic-Castle, I do have have a
> dedicated server and excess bandwidth, so some help could have been provided.
>
> Now, after seeing the reaction here and elsewhere, I am rapidly starting not to
> care if you whiney vultures ever get your photos back.
>
> Kevin provided a basically free service to everyone for YEARS. Everyone used it
> without much thought tot he costs involved. Sure, he could have handled this
> latest episode better, but for now none of us know the circumstances involved.
> I know that *I* would certainly have grown tired of supporting a site for a
> bunch of ungrateful users.
>
> And as for the supposed "Lego Community"? Useless. Instead of being a true
> community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what to
> we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
>
> Do something or quit your complaining.
>
> Troy
Troy, something like this doesn't have to be either black or white, one side or
the other. Brickshelf can be awesome because it's free and a good resource and
it can also suck because it wasn't really ever improved and *especially* because
it just went away with no warning at all.
I really like that Brickshelf was free. I like that Kevin provided this service.
I'm also allowed to not like that it wasn't updated and Kevin didn't maintain
much of a relationship with the community. I also do not like that he has
apparently just thrown everyone's images out with no warning at all.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
Now, after seeing the reaction here and elsewhere, I am rapidly starting not
to care if you whiney vultures ever get your photos back.
|
You expected rounds of applause?
| |
Kevin provided a basically free service to everyone for YEARS. Everyone used
it without much thought tot he costs involved. Sure, he could have handled
this latest episode better, but for now none of us know the circumstances
involved. I know that *I* would certainly have grown tired of supporting a
site for a bunch of ungrateful users.
|
The people who used Brickshelf were very grateful for it - at no point, even
now, have we become “ungrateful”. The whole reason we are angry and disappointed
is because it was a site we cared about. Most people were aware of the costs
involved, but there were ads on the site to cover the cost and if he needed more
money all he had to do was ask. Yes it was a free service, but even a free
service needs to be able to be relied upon or nobody would ever use it in the
first place.
| |
And as for the supposed “Lego Community”? Useless. Instead of being a true
community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what to
we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
|
Kevin, as far as we know, is the only person responsible for Brickshelf, so it
makes sense to direct questions and frustrations at him.
| |
Do something or quit your complaining.
Troy
|
For most of us there is nothing we can do except vent our frustration - perhaps
you have a server that could be used or you’ve spoken to Kevin so you feel less
powerless and let down, but to tell people to put up or shut up isn’t going to
help the situation, it’s just going to make people more resentful.
In all, that was a particularly nasty tirade that completely misjudged the
reasons for why people are upset. We are upset because we cared about the
site, not because we are at all ungrateful. You talk about the Lego community
being “useless” while spitting venom at AFOLs here and defending someone who has
harmed the Lego community more than anything else I can think of.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
| |
Do something or quit your complaining.
|
While I respect the direction you have steered this conversation, I have to say
I disagree with some of your comments Troy.
First of all, many of the replies here have simply voiced frustration or concern
over the possible loss to the online community - and a decade of images and
links IS a loss no matter how many of us saved locally. Such replies are valid
comments to share and neither attack the admins of BS nor should they be readily
dismissed as “whining”.
Second, you suggest this might not have happened if only users had been willing
to support BS. Posts that come below yours in the orginal thread have mixed
evidence that perhaps BS was surviving financially on the ads alone. Further, I
see mention that some members had indeed made donations. It seems possible the
site went down for more than just financial reasons. But if finances were a
factor, I for one would have been okay with it being a pay site. ...As one
poster mentioned here, it’s rather amazing Lugnet is only $10 plus an ocassional
donation campaign. (I’d be willing to pay more here too!)
Third, you ask for people to take action rather than complain. But what action
can most of us take? While most could forgo that extra $20 S@H set each year to
afford a subscription to a paysite, few of us have computer servers laying
around our living rooms, nor is everone who posts here savvy with the networks,
hardware, or software involved. (Maybe I’m wrong about that - but I certainly
don’t/am not. I can hardly manage the webspace I have for my little 100MB site!
And other than being an end-user, I stopped learning new stuff about computer
science when the Commodore 128 was still in use.) Further, we are spread out
across the globe, and several of us lead busy lives. So other than donating
money (which we are willing but no longer able), donating skills (which not all
of us have), or dontating time (which not all of us have), what is this
“something” you think we can do? Other than simply HOPE the community has more
benevolent tech-savvy server-owners, I’m out of ideas.
-Hendo
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Hendo,
I will reply here to your post, but will try to cover everything above it as
well. Please do not think that everything is pointed at you.
In lugnet.general, John P. Henderson wrote:
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First of all, many of the replies here have simply voiced frustration or
concern over the possible loss to the online community - and a decade of
images and links IS a loss no matter how many of us saved locally. Such
replies are valid comments to share and neither attack the admins of BS nor
should they be readily dismissed as “whining”.
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Please not that my original post specifically said “SOME” and not “ALL” replies.
I can certainly understand that there is frustration at the loss. That was my
first reaction as well, as I have quite a few photos there. I probably have
them all SOMEWHERE on my computer, but it is certainly going to be a pain to
find and gather them all up again.
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Second, you suggest this might not have happened if only users had been
willing to support BS. Posts that come below yours in the orginal thread
have mixed evidence that perhaps BS was surviving financially on the ads
alone. Further, I see mention that some members had indeed made donations.
It seems possible the site went down for more than just financial reasons.
But if finances were a factor, I for one would have been okay with it being a
pay site. ...As one poster mentioned here, it’s rather amazing Lugnet is
only $10 plus an ocassional donation campaign. (I’d be willing to pay more
here too!)
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One of my main points is that we DON’T KNOW yet what happened, It may or may
not have been financial. There are any of number of other reasons it could have
been taken down. Until we as a community know what happened, we should atleast
give Kevin the benefit of the doubt.
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Third, you ask for people to take action rather than complain. But what
action can most of us take? While most could forgo that extra $20 S@H set
each year to afford a subscription to a paysite, few of us have computer
servers laying around our living rooms, nor is everone who posts here savvy
with the networks, hardware, or software involved. (Maybe I’m wrong about
that - but I certainly don’t/am not. I can hardly manage the webspace I have
for my little 100MB site! And other than being an end-user, I stopped
learning new stuff about computer science when the Commodore 128 was still in
use.) Further, we are spread out across the globe, and several of us lead
busy lives. So other than donating money (which we are willing but no longer
able), donating skills (which not all of us have), or dontating time (which
not all of us have), what is this “something” you think we can do? Other
than simply HOPE the community has more benevolent tech-savvy server-owners,
I’m out of ideas.
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Until we know what needs to be done, there really is not much direct action that
can take place. But at a time like this, HOPE and positive attitudes go a long
way. Just expressing a willingness to help, in whatever way you can, would go a
long way to encouraging others to do the same.
I was just really upset that when a major site went down, and while I and some
others were talking behind the scenes on how to fix the problem, others chose
this opportunity to take pot shots at Kevin and BrickShelf. It was very
discouraging to myself and the others that people were so quick to make
judgements without knowing all the facts. Granted, BrickShelf may not have been
perfect, and Kevin may not have been the best host, but provided a great serice
for a long time, and that should not be forgotten.
As it is right now, BS is sort of working through https, so everyone can go get
their photos that they did not have backed up. The main thing is that all the
pictures are still there. If Kevin is no longer willing to host the site
himself, I am confident that it can be transferred somewhere else.
I certainly will continue to work towards a positive solution, and I am sure
that the others I have been talking to privately will as well. If everyone else
could also remain positive that would certainly help as well.
As for the “No warning at all” that people keep saying, this is not true.
Warning was given 2 years ago that the future of BrickShelf was in doubt and
that all photos should be moved to Maj.com. That we all chose to ignore this
warning for two years is our fault, not Kevins. That he managed to keep the
site going for another 2 years does not negate the warning.
As for my “nasty tirade” I just call it like I see it. Some people were upset
and voiced their opinions, which is fine. Some people felt the need to pick
over the fresh corpse (that turned out not to be quite dead yet), and that is
not fine and not helpful at all.
I found it odd and disturbing that the conversation at Lugnet, the supposed
center of the AFOL universe, took on a decidedly negative tone early on before
all (or any) of the facts were known. Contrast this to BrickLink, which is
mainly a commerce site, where the discussion covered dismay, but also maintained
a positive attitude about the situation with many people expressing their
interest to help out however they could.
I guess that I was just disappointed with the reaction here, I had expected
better. In fairness, I was also disappointed by the reaction at Classic-Castle
as well, and voiced much the same opinions there as well.
Troy
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In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
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I was just really upset that when a major site went down, and while I and
some others were talking behind the scenes on how to fix the problem, others
chose this opportunity to take pot shots at Kevin and BrickShelf. It was
very discouraging to myself and the others that people were so quick to make
judgements without knowing all the facts. Granted, BrickShelf may not have
been perfect, and Kevin may not have been the best host, but provided a great
serice for a long time, and that should not be forgotten.
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Yes, on this we agree! ...And I too was trying to look at all sides fairly.
You are right though, BS hasn’t been down long and we don’t know all the facts
yet... And I do thank you and the others who have tried for any effort toward
finding a solution.
-Hendo
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In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
> This is not directed at Tim, but rather some of the whiners that responed to his
> post above...
>
> When I first saw that BrickShelf was down, I was all gung-ho to see what I could
> do to help bring it back up. As the host for Classic-Castle, I do have have a
> dedicated server and excess bandwidth, so some help could have been provided.
>
> Now, after seeing the reaction here and elsewhere, I am rapidly starting not to
> care if you whiney vultures ever get your photos back.
>
> Kevin provided a basically free service to everyone for YEARS. Everyone used it
> without much thought tot he costs involved. Sure, he could have handled this
> latest episode better, but for now none of us know the circumstances involved.
> I know that *I* would certainly have grown tired of supporting a site for a
> bunch of ungrateful users.
>
> And as for the supposed "Lego Community"? Useless. Instead of being a true
> community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what to
> we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
>
> Do something or quit your complaining.
>
> Troy
It is clear to me you have never had to deal with Kevin before.
I'm not a whiner, but I know when a battle is lost.
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In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
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Do something or quit your complaining.
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Do what? He’s only talking to but a few people, and not telling them much.
EJP
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In lugnet.general, Troy Cefaratti wrote:
<SNIP>
> And as for the supposed "Lego Community"? Useless. Instead of being a true
> community and banding together to help save a pillar of the community, what to
> we get? Personal attacks on Kevin and a bunch of whining.
>
> Do something or quit your complaining.
>
> Troy
And so far the biggest whining has come from Troy ...... lmao on the irony.
BS was a great service and will be missed, but let's not forget why it was good.
It was the AFOL and all the awesome MOCs. Useless Troy? I don't think so.
Shutting down BS will fracture all the content everywhere. It's not that we
don't keep our own backups, we just didn't backup everyone's.
So what if it was free, that was his choice, but by stopping BS, he has set back
the AFOL community a long time.
You would have thought he would have explained himself and the motives behind
the closure.
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