Subject:
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Re: Seeking Strategies on Humanoid Robots/Walkers
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Thu, 21 Jan 1999 05:52:36 GMT
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Viewed:
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4656 times
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Jasper Janssen wrote in message <36a3ca48.45364286@lugnet.com>...
> On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 04:19:43 GMT, lego-robotics@crynwr.com (Andrew
> Phelps) wrote:
>
> > Well, that is the million dollar question, so to speak :)
> > posted. Am I to assume then that no one on this list has done this ? Let
>
> I seem to recall that noone has succesfully solved the problem of
> artificial biped locomotion even in traditional robotics, let alone
This problem has been solved with both fuzzy logic and neural
network control systems. I believe that a traditional control
system approach to this problem has yielded poor results.
The sensors used in this type of robot are typically semiconductor
based accelerometers and gyroscopes.
> within the constraints of LEGO. Basically, what you need is a system
No, I don't think anyone will be solving this problem using
Mindstorms. There is a whole list of limitations:
- slow processor
- wrong processor architecture
- wrong software tools
- inadequate sensors
- inadequate actuators
There are robots today that have actuators that simulate muscles,
and I'm not talking about pulleys and micromotors, I am talking
about technology out there on the cutting edge.
I wish Lego had news and information about this kind of stuff
on the Mindstorms site, instead of the lame-o stuff they usually
show for excruciatingly long times.
> that can sense very delicate shifts in balance, and shift its point of
> gravity to account for that. This is _difficult_, especially if you
> want to have your robot do anything else. And that's just standing
> still. Of course, you could make him/her be very flatfooted (if you're
> thinking about a model of say 50 studs high, think the 20*40
> baseplates as feet :) ), and have the robot stand on one of the feet,
> while moving the other forward, then shifting the COG (center of
> Gravity) to above the other foot.., etc.
>
>
> maybe you could have a foot profile such as:
>
> 1111111111111
> 1
> 1
> 1 2222222222222
> 1 2
> 1 2
> 1111111111111 2
> 1 2
> 1 2
> 1 2222222222222
> 1
> 1
> 1111111111111
>
>
> where 1 is one foot, and 2 the other. But that doesn't lookmuch like a
> human foot anymore, and dancing would also be difficult.
>
> If you want, say, a leg to have motion in the groin, knee, and ankle
> areas, you're already looking at 6 motors. Or rather, Servos or
> Pneumatics/Hydraulics: Lego motors aren't nearly accurate enoughfor
> most things.
>
> Well, back to RCX reality: Unless you have _plenty_ of cash and can
> buy a dozen RCXs and solder the interfaces between em (it'd prolly be
> easier to just take a real microcontroller, btw), you're gonna have to
> simplify. My solution, tentatively theoretical: use the extra "stalks"
> as in the picture above on the feet to help it keep it's balance, have
> the ankle fixed, and the knee and groin joints set at the same angle,
> in reverse:
>
> O
> /
> /
> /
> /
> o
> |
> |
> |
> ---------
>
>
> Then make something with a large gear so it runs in a somehwat
> circular motion, with the leg lifting off of the ground at the back of
> the cycle, then go back to the front, then put foot down, move to
> back, etc. I think you coul prolly gear the l/r leg to work on one
> gear train, with one, possibly two motors to drive it. I haven't
> solved left right yet, have I? Hmm... need to think about that.
>
>
> Thanks for giving me such an interesting idea to think about :)
>
> Jasper
>
>
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Seeking Strategies on Humanoid Robots/Walkers
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| Patrick Gili wrote in message ... (...) Actually, they can be built with *relatively* simple, active-feedback systems for the balance and control. Simple legged robots (one leg is actually easier than two to control) have been around since ~1980. (...) (28 years ago, 21-Jan-99, to lugnet.robotics)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Seeking Strategies on Humanoid Robots/Walkers [DAT]
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| (...) I seem to recall that noone has succesfully solved the problem of artificial biped locomotion even in traditional robotics, let alone within the constraints of LEGO. Basically, what you need is a system that can sense very delicate shifts in (...) (28 years ago, 19-Jan-99, to lugnet.robotics)
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