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		Re: Libertarian Propaganda
(...) Economic imperialism, whatever that might be, surely doesn't fall within this libertarian's definition of what an appropriate national interest ought to be. Can you define what you mean a bit more? What I think Mark is getting at is that the (...) (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) If you mean you avoid the point(1), and I don't - I agree. (...) This sounds almost threatening. You must be pretty thin skinned Larry. Do you keep a little black book of all of those who "no longer have standing" with you, or do you use (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) Disagree. Nothing makes 'right.' Might makes reality. (...) Additionally, they can choose to be immoral, which I'm wonder if people in this thread are forgetting is not the same as amoral. (...) I think there is. Neither the lion nor the (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) They are one of the most extreme "animal rights" organizations. While I do feel there probably are some bad practices with animals, I don't think blowing up buildings, burning buildings, and other such destructive (and possibly endangering (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: 3 Question (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Well, the idea is (in my mind) that morality in general has some "root" to it in order to be deemed morality at all. Heck, your morality is just as misplaced when ported to me as when mine is ported to a dog. And yet we do both. Are our (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) The cambridge link didn't work for me. When I went here: (URL) got these: 1. Not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral. 2. Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong. Seems to me that "moral", (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Well, for one, I tend to be somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to this kind of thing (philisophical). If I can tell something does break in extremes, I can tell it's not "perfect". And sure, that means (for me) that I accept almost (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) Perpetuating folly is a flaw in anyone who does it, including me. When you and Scott go at it, you are equally at fault in perpetuating the folly of arguing with someone that has given you no cause to believe they will ever see reason (as you (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: 3 Question (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) You're creating a false dichotomy between a la "it must happen at specific point X, or else it cannot happen at all." This is simply untrue. I would assert that, far from occuring at a single, threshhold point, morality is a system of values (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.390)

		Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
(...) Do these poeple not all tend to group together in readiness for the day the FBI comes to get them and take away their rights? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: 3 Question (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) What about dolphins which have saved people with probably no real opportunity for bonding? My feeling is that most of what makes us human is not unique to us, but is exhibited to at least some degree by other animals. It is interesting to note (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) No, because I don't know of any boundary conditions where it would hold, contrasted with the many boundary conditions where "don't yell at your kids" is invalid, and the few boundary conditions where "free speech" is invalid. (to your (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Really? That's something I didn't know (but then again I dislike all seafood anyway so I know very little about it). Just out of curiousity, how does it make them poisonous? Is there some sort of drastic chemical change that happens when (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party (was Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
(...) lol. If you understood UK politics you would know you have just shot yourself in the foot. (...) You are not reading the text I quoted. Think a little deeper Larry. From their platform: (URL) autonomy to the citizen Revert to authority of (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Just as a quick note, I'm not sure I've given such a definition, other than by example ("I know it when I see it", or so I think). I'm open to someone trying to give one, I suspect it's a thorny problem. (the circular definition "you're self (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) I say if you must eat them, at least kill them swiftly before tossing them in the boiling water. Why miss opportunities to be humane? It's good self discipline and shows character, in my opinion. For example, when an old and sick or dying pet (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: 3 Question (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
I'm responding to various layers here...not just Frank. (...) hits. (...) It seems that your observation of an animal acting on what I think could be explained through instinct and self-interest has lead you to assign morality. I'm not convinced. (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) I understand the motivation too, I think (who can be sure they understand the motivation of others?). But I cannot condone force initiation. We must exhaust the rule of law first before we get that extreme. I share your concern about farming (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.389)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) You have asked this already. I have answered it already. (...) I think we tend to group socially with those who have morals which match our own. (...) Your own values are your own. We are all individuals. (...) A great deal. (...) Yes (...) It (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 2.388)

		Re: Drugs and guns
(...) I don't think it was humor. I think he was being snotty. (...) Only if you consider a national bloodbath and endless guerilla war "bad." :-) (...) Ayup! And you know why we won't end the war on drugs? Because the police support it. You know (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, property
(score: 2.388)

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