 | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Tom Stangl
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| | | (...) Earning brownie points to get into heaven is self-rewarding, so I guess you are saying Christians are NEVER altruistic? (...) Yet your god sends people to Hell. "I love you, but go suffer for an eternity". No thanks. -- Tom Stangl ***(URL) (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) Well, there are Christians who claim that it doesn't matter what you do, if you are among the "elect", you've already got your ticket to heaven. Now I guess they can still claim that God is the force that motivates them to good, but so many (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) Nobody HERE ever does that, though. ++Lar (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | (...) “Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without any proof.” - Ashley Montague I was thinking about god last night. I think part of the problem with parts of this debate is the need of modern society to break (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —John Neal
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| | | | | (...) Tom, you are not *listening*-- one more time, because it is the crux of the Gospel (Good News) *There is NOTHING you can do to EARN God's love. God loves us all THE SAME, whether we go around murdering children or serve him as Pope. God (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | (...) I got the impression that the faith concept is a rather different in Christianity. I mean, as I know of from the Islam, faith means god knows everything, including our future, so he already knows how I will act in future cases. The same Islam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Jon Kozan
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| | | | | | | (...) A popularly debated question in Christianity. Succinctly - 1) God knows everything - both past, present and future. 2) God exists apart from time and is not subject to it, ntering it as He wills. 3) God's knowledge doesn't equal control. Just (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | (...) Uhm... Nothing different then, just same as the Islamic approach. Point 2 does not mean anything (what on earth does "apart from time and is not subject to it, entering it as he wills" mean to us poor human beings?), but for the other points, (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Jon Kozan
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| | | | | | | | (...) Knowing (if I was God) something - a path is drawn - doesn't mean that I drew the line. You still draw the line - I am just a witness to it. Many, many people get hung up on this point. (...) Perhaps that's a theological point of departure for (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | (...) Actually, that should be as: Everything is came from god, everything evolves under his control, either good or bad. Anyway, just for knowledge. By the way, for your other question, I was muslim before, now agnostic/atheist/don't care/etc., (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) I fully appreciate your questions. Anyone who argues here for the sake of argument is a fool and a waster of time. These questions for me strike at the very reason I choose to get up every day and live. Albert Camus, a great (IMO) (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | (...) Wow, that's the answer John. I really appreciated it. I think the only answer for any belief can be "I believe/don't believe it, because I like it this way ay don't feel any need to have any evidences for it" and till now you are the only one (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Jon Kozan
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| | | | | (...) Seems to me, Tom, that your struggling here... If God didn't allow us to suffer, He would be a controlling entity - and we mere automatons. We do have choise - that is required by true love. I'd be really interested to know what it is that you (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Lindsay Frederick Braun
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| | | | | | (...) *The Unitarian perks up* Now, if God is the alpha and omega, knows all past, present, and future, is there really any Free Will beyond simple human Brownian motion? That's the Calvinist model, that we don't really have Free Will, but that our (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less? —Jon Kozan
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| | | | (...) Seems to me, Tom, that you're struggling here... If God didn't allow us to suffer, He would be a controlling entity - and we mere automatons. We do have choise - that is required by true love. I'd be really interested to know what it is that (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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