Subject:
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Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:45:25 GMT
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Reply-To:
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ssgore@superonline%AntiSpam%.com
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Viewed:
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1420 times
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Jon Kozan wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Selçuk Göre writes:
>
> > I got the impression that the faith concept is a rather different in
> > Christianity. I mean, as I know of from the Islam, faith means god knows
> > everything, including our future, so he already knows how I will act in
> > future cases. The same Islam also says that, just like other religions,
> > you are responsible from your acts, because you choose it by using your
> > free will. This produces a quick question: If he already know how we
> > act, if there is no escape from faith, then it is already known by him
> > where we will go at the end (heaven or hell) so how can we are acting
> > with out own free will? To be more clear how can these both things can
> > be accurate at the same time, side by side? This is the one of the
> > biggest flaws in Islam to me.
>
> > Since you already said that in Christianity, people assumed to act with
> > their own free will so they will face the consequences of their own acts
> > at the end, too. So what about the knowledge level of Christian God
> > about our future? He know it from the beginning or not? If he knows it
> > just as Islam God (how many gods are there by the way..:-), is there any
> > explanation for the above paradox in Christianity? Believe it or not,
> > I'm just asking for the sake of knowledge.
>
> A popularly debated question in Christianity.
> Succinctly -
> 1) God knows everything - both past, present and future.
> 2) God exists apart from time and is not subject to it, ntering it as He wills.
> 3) God's knowledge doesn't equal control. Just as I may know something
> happened, doesn't mean I made it happen.
> 4) Foreknowledge - knowing something before it happens - doesn't mean you made
> it happen. (a example on a much smaller scale - just because I know the sun wil
> shine later today doesn' mena I make it shine)
>
> -Jon
Uhm... Nothing different then, just same as the Islamic approach. Point
2 does not mean anything (what on earth does "apart from time and is not
subject to it, entering it as he wills" mean to us poor human beings?),
but for the other points, if a path is drawn for me by whoever, (if it
is known, it is already drawn, I can't see any alternative to it) I have
no options. Same singularity I think. If it is drawn, independent from
having control on it or not, I have still no choice, whether I have
acting knowingly or not does not matter.
Again I have a problem with this "knowledge doesn't mean control"
statement over there. Islam also suggests that everything is came from
god, everything evolves under his control.
Selçuk
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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| (...) Knowing (if I was God) something - a path is drawn - doesn't mean that I drew the line. You still draw the line - I am just a witness to it. Many, many people get hung up on this point. (...) Perhaps that's a theological point of departure for (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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| (...) A popularly debated question in Christianity. Succinctly - 1) God knows everything - both past, present and future. 2) God exists apart from time and is not subject to it, ntering it as He wills. 3) God's knowledge doesn't equal control. Just (...) (24 years ago, 1-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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