 | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Ed Jones
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| | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: [snip] (...) You lost me there - "To claim less is to give up something so valuable that I can't even approach why you might want to." I have no idea what the comment means. (...) some (...) (...) (24 years ago, 25-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) Right, sorry about that. I mean that to give up ultimate responsibility for your own situation is essentially the same thing as volunteering for a kind of slavery. It's like saying that you're not capable of taking responsibility for your (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —James Simpson
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| | | | | (...) Ok..into the fray I plunge: You have a point regarding promiscuous (spelling?) behavior, but I know someone who was raped when an intruder broke into her house. I'd hardly blame the victim in that case. I wholeheartedly disagree with your (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) Chris's point, and I agree with it, is that the victim does have some responsibility. Perhaps they should have lived in a safer neighborhood. Perhaps they should have instituted a neighborhood watch. BUT, this minor responsibility doesn't (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) think (...) accident. (...) I would never, under any circumstances, blame the victim of a rape - or any violent crime (it's not a violent crime if it was justified) - for the crime's committal. That's just not a viable or productive stance. On (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —James Simpson
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| | | | | | (...) I do mostly agree with you - victims are rarely 100%, well...victims. Often some act of indiscretion or carelessness is a contributing factor, but...isn't that just the nature of life? I have a friend who just got 2 fingers ripped off in a (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Personal Responsibility (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Well, I do think that people are victims. I just also think that they bear responsibility for their situations. And I largely think that people are victims because they don't see to it that they won't be. (...) Yes. And as such, people need to (...) (24 years ago, 27-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Personal Responsibility (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —James Simpson
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| | | | | | (...) Agreed. (...) Yes, but life is a terribly complex and complicated thing. People must deal with their mistakes, but often it is not reasonable or right to make them 100% responsible. (...) Regarding Lego, unfortunatly, I have not made yet made (...) (24 years ago, 27-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Personal Responsibility (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | (...) It's hard for me to fault them too much, when the government (by your account) seems to have gone out of its way to make this happen. (...) He should have negotiated for a better employment contract. This scenario seems bizzarre in this land (...) (24 years ago, 27-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Personal Responsibility (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | James Simpson wrote in message ... (...) deal (...) 100% (...) Chris (and I) have never said that the "victim" is ever 100% responsible. We have just argued that the victim does have SOME responsibility. Thankfully North Carolina doesn't see it (...) (24 years ago, 27-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Personal Responsibility (was: Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Agreed. (24 years ago, 28-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) Do you mean they're "responsible" because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Or "they're asking for it?" So if I start knifing people at random the next time I'm on the subway, it's somehow they're fault, at least (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) accident. (...) To say that one is "asking for it" asserts they desire that outcome. Few people desire to be raped or collided with by another automobile. On the other hand, they didn't desire the opposite enough to secure that outcome. Such (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) So if I stomp on an infant or kill a sleeping person, they're still somehow responsible? Your assertion, after a fashion, amounts to "victims make themselves victims." (...) A tempting offer, but I must decline. However, by your previous (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) In the case of the infant, where were the parents? In the case of the sleeping person, where are they sleeping, why didn't they sleep in a safer place? Why didn't they get a buddy to watch them? Sure, the necessary action to completely protect (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) I agree completely! Unfortunately I didn't read your other post on this subject until after I'd posted my previous message, or I'd've addressed your points! (...) That's not my intent at all, and, since this is for all intents and purposes a (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) OK, you caught me. You found a loophole for which I'm not willing to stick to my guns. Infants, having not attained a reasonable measure of maturity and ability, don't count. Infants do not make themselves victims. OTOH, to some extent, the (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) Heh. Not being *purposely* obtuse, though I was trying to extend your argument to (one of) its extreme conclusions. As I mentioned in a response to one of Frank's posts, I'm not comfortable with the latitude such words as "victim" and (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | (...) No. Of course not. You are equally (that is to say fully?) responsible in each instance. In neither case is your death or survival exactly your fault, but in both cases it was your responsibility to assure your safety. And it was the piano (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Part of this was my error in blurring the relationship between "fault" and "responsibility." My feeling, though, is still that while we are primarily responsible for ourselves, we are also societally responsible for others. I don't think this (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) This is an interesting point to consider. What one needs to consider is that being involved in an incident is not what creates your responsibility for avoiding the risk. It just actuallizes the risk. The responsibility for avoiding the risk is (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) I agree that the speeder was responsible for the accident, but while I can point to ways that your friend's behavior could have avoided it, I can claim that he shares responsibility. (I realize that this is not an argument against what you've (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) True, but surely you realize that this is every bit as absurd as my infant- stomping example from my earlier post. He could have been driving a tank. He could have demolished every car driving over the hill. He could have posted a sentry at (...) (24 years ago, 26-May-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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