Subject:
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Re: personal responsibility (was:Re: Why is AIDS such a big deal?)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 26 May 2000 16:21:55 GMT
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Viewed:
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1186 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
>
> > Victims are partially responsible for being victims.
>
> So if I stomp on an infant or kill a sleeping person, they're still somehow
> responsible? Your assertion, after a fashion, amounts to "victims make
> themselves victims."
OK, you caught me. You found a loophole for which I'm not willing to stick to
my guns. Infants, having not attained a reasonable measure of maturity and
ability, don't count. Infants do not make themselves victims. OTOH, to some
extent, the sleeping victim does...(s)he could have slept somewhere more
secure.
Also, just so that I'm sure, are you purposely being obtuse to tie up the loose
ends in my argument, while actually agreeing with the main thrust? I'm OK with
that, actually I appreciate it, but it is different from just disagreeing
completely.
> > > "Your honor, I'm not guilty because I was stabbing at the air, an no one
> > > would've gotten hurt if those people hadn't been standing in the way."
> >
> > I would call that a reasonable defense -- unless you were lying, and as your
> > judge I would remand you to the custody of the state permanently where you
> > could be allowed to serve your community, attempting to pay of the damge that
> > you caused, albeit accidentaly as a result of your subhuman stability.
> >
> > The difference between humans and other animals is that we expect them to
> > understand this responsibility. If you want to be classified as a wild
> > animal, we can treat you as such.
>
> A tempting offer, but I must decline. However, by your previous assertions
> there is no moral or logical difference between wild animals and humans
I made that claim in one sense, but not in another. From the perspective of
ethicallity of my behavior toward them, they are morally equivalent. But it
would just be stupid for me to have the same expectations from a cow and a
human. I don't, for instance, engage in conversations with cows (normally).
There are differences in the way we think. Important ones. And we are even
superior to the other animals (so far as we understand it) at thinking. But
that doesn't make it any more right to victimize them. To follow that logic
makes it better to kill and eat retarded humans than "normal" ones...do you
want to go there?
> --is
> that view consistent with this new assertion of "understanding of
> responsibility?"
Yes. We have the capacity to understand the notion of responsibility. No
other species seems to have that capacity.
> How can you keep throwing around terms like "subhuman
> stability" and "wild animal," while simultaneously asserting the "logical" and
> "moral" equivalency of animals and humans?
Does my text above explain this sufficiently, or do I need to go on? If I do,
please ask specific questions, citing my bits that are confusing.
> > > > In both the case of government bail-out or parental protections, I consider
> > > > them more like insurance providers. And I admit that you can apply the • same
> > > > thing to parents...but it seems different. I didn't get to pick my • parents,
> > > > but I just had to wait.
> > >
> > > By your own assertion you are at least partially responsible for the • parents
> > > you wound up with, whether you chose them or not.
> >
> > No, I am responsible for what I make of them.
>
> But that's not what you said. You asserted that victims are partially
> responsible for being victims.
And with the exception of the pretty young (I'll include age-adult
brain-juveniles in this lump, for convenience), I think that's true. I don't
see how that reflects on the issue of whether or not my parents were chosen,
and what my responsibility for that situation is. I'm not sure what we're
arguing in this last bit. Could you clear it up in your next response?
Chris
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