 | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Dave Schuler
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| | | (...) Well, it's an opinion piece, so we can only dispute the opinion as given. I gather that Hattersly considers himself a nonbeliever, but his beliefs are irrelevant to the validity of his argument, of course. Regardless, here are a few notes: (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | (...) -snip- (...) I agree with Dave completely. Another key weakness of his opinion is that he ignores whether atheists could actively support religious charities for non-religious purposes. Although I am an agnostic, I regularly donate to Heifer (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Hey, Lenny- Do you support them because you feel an obligation towards your fellow man? And if so, from where does that sense eminate? JOHN (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | | (...) I don't feel obligated. However, if I want the best world for me and my children and my children's children, then helping others build a future for themselves is the best bet. It is a version of the "self-serving" argument. My family (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Thomas Stangl
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| | | | | | (...) Right back atcha - WHY does it have to eminate from a Superior Being? What is so hard to understand about the fact that Doing Good is Good, regardless of your "reward" (which, in your case, is Brownie Points To Avoid Damnation)? Good is not (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Good question. Additionally, it must be stated that if our notion of "good" emanates from some entity, then we have no means of objectively assessing that entity's "goodness" or "evilness." (...) This would be a good time for us all to review (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote: <snip> (...) Just how well read are you, Dave!?? Wonderin'... Dave K (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Heh. Not as well as I'd like, to be honest. My knowledge of modern history is embarrassingly feeble, and I have no ear for modern poetry, either. Most of the meaty entries on my "stuff I've read" list came about in college, though I still like (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | (...) In the same manner as are you, Dave! :-) But I have faith in you, Dave! For I believe that you embrace the sentiment of Socrates' statement (about arguments, and Truth): "For I would give the wisdom of Daedalus, and the wealth of Tantalus, to (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Having done just that, I have a few observations: First, some of Socrate's initial arguments would have to be reworked assuming a single God. But I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem for Plato;-) Overall, this discussion simply reiterates to me (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) Man, feeling quite proud of himself, then went on to prove that black is white and got himself killed at the next zebra crossing... -HHGTTG--the next bit. You can read volumes into this, but basically, even though I know that DA was a 'devout (...) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —John Neal
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| | | | (...) Thanks for the response, Dave! Okay, so you'd tend to disagree with his supposition:-) What interested me about the piece is the fact that the author claims to be an atheist, so the typical "preaching to the choir" accusation doesn't quite fit (...) (19 years ago, 18-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | (...) I'm an atheist, and I tend to agree with that opinion, just not as strongly, ie life is about a *mixture* of MEMEME and caring for others. But if your opinion is your best argument, then I don't think you have much of an argument - the article (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Timothy Gould
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| | | | | --SNIP-- (...) I would think that doing good for religious people is more about personal gain than for atheists. Theists always believe that their good deeds will go rewarded by God or Karma or some other external system whereas atheists care only (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —John Neal
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| | | | | | | (...) Hey Tim- I knew this would come up:-) Actually, doing good for religious people is more of a response rather than an attempt to curry favor. Christian doctrine is that we are saved by grace alone; God's love is unconditional. One cannot earn (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Thomas Stangl
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| | | | | | | | (...) God's love, what a joke. Send all the sinners to Hell, but love them. Riiiight. (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) (URL) (19 years ago, 21-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | (...) I absolutely disagree. Unitarian Universalism (which is not all atheists) is generally promotes the idea that there is not an external reward for good deeds. Frank (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Timothy Gould
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| | | | | | (...) And I completely agree with your disagreement. Writing always is never, ever, ever a good idea. I'll change the "always" to "almost always" and then I'll be fine ;). Tim (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: Heads up, atheists —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) That's why I coined this stunningly witty phrase: preaching to the choir, even if the preacher isn't part of the congregation. Nyuk nyuk nyuk. (...) No. All arguments by non-believers are inherently perfect and sumptuously articulated. (...) (...) (19 years ago, 19-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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