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(...) Whoa - if everyone is always responsible, civil, and unoffensive, why even bother with freedom of speech? Freedom of speech is there specifically to protect behavior people might find offensive, like neo-Nazi marches through Jewish (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Do you mean if everyone is perfect, why bother with laws? I guess you wouldn't need them. Then again, everyone isn't perfect, so I have no idea what your point is. (...) And I'm saying that responsible, considerate people who hate Jews (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I'd like to clarify this, if I may. John, from our long history of debate, I sense that you'd agree that people have the right to air their views publicly, no matter how ignorant or hateful those views are, but according to the nature of our (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Just because one should be free to speak their mind, doesn't mean that should be able to at the expense of other's pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness, which is the basic premise of the Constitution. We "bother with it" because (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) On the contrary--the only speech that requires protection is that which society-at-large finds suitable for censorship. (...) Unless you're equating "offensive" artistic expression with slander, this point is irrelevant. Likewise, arguments (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Schpiffkraft Hakenkreuz
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(...) Yes (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Once again, you have crystallized my thoughts exactly, Paul..er Dave! [1] (...) Exactly. "polite", "civil", "responsible", "respectful". They are all qualities of a good citizen; a good person for that matter. (...) Yes, tactics are certainly (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Schpiffkraft Hakenkreuz
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(...) "requires protection" All speech is protected, but only some speech needs to be protected. -Lenny (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Uh, isn't that pretty much what I wrote? Dave! (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I don't believe that speech was included at the time of the BoR for society-at-large censorship, but rather protection from vengeful governing bodies like royalty or Congress. As I stated earlier, there were no neo-nazis in the late 18th (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) And what is "inappropriate"? Who decides? You? Some would argue it is inappropriate that women are permitted out in public unveiled. Sure, Nazism is a horrible, evil thing, but should we restrict someone's right to act like a jerk if they want (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Schpiffkraft Hakenkreuz
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(...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Freedom of Protest, was Re: Schpiffkraft Hakenkreuz
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(...) Nick's point is that there is a difference between "restrict someone's right to act like a jerk" AND "restrict someone's right to act like a jerk anywhere they please. The Supreme Court has held up "free speach zones" - especially on college (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I prefer it when extremist hate groups say really stupid things in public. It shows the rest of society what they really believe. Forcing groups like this undgerground is just ignoring the issue. Jeff (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Who decides what is appropriate? You? (...) Right, so let's force them all into extermination camps. Not the same issue. (...) If in the course of being a jerk, you earmark a minority group of humans for death, we should restrict it. Should we (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I agree with that. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. But that's not the same as saying "it's ok". (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You're confusing speech with action. Wearing a swastika= speech. Murdering millions = action. Advocating slavery = speech, enslaving people = action. HUGE difference. (...) Again, a symbol is speech, not an action. And I'm using a few extreme (...) (19 years ago, 9-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Actually, no he isn't. You are. You said "should we restrict someone's right to ACT like a jerk if they want to?" "Act" generally means action, not speech. (...) I'm not sure Nick is advocating the legal restriction of speech in any respect. (...) (19 years ago, 10-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Pretty simple - if it doesn't hurt anyone to make a statement, it should be protected. But if we start restricting things because it upsets someone, we're starting down a slippery slope. Offensive speech is the only type that really needs (...) (19 years ago, 10-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Correct. The question specifically stated "act". Samuel is framing my answer with what he thought, not what he wrote. (...) I choose not to. You can split hairs all you like, but a symbol represents something. In this case, it represents the (...) (19 years ago, 10-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I would imagine it's hurtful to the Jews that survived the camps, as well as Jews in general. But I guess I really don't know. You seem to know what is and isn't hurtful 3o:) This is an emoticon of me teabagging you. It doesn't hurt anyone... (...) (19 years ago, 10-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Again, you're talking about forced restricting. Is it possible that Nick and I are suggesting that Richie should have restricted himself? Also, you forgot to answer the question as to what exactly "speech behavior" is. Either its speech or its (...) (19 years ago, 10-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Schpiffkraft Hakenkreuz
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(...) Exactly. (URL) Me, too.> JOHN (19 years ago, 11-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) An obscene emoticon! My one weakness! NOOO...OOO!!!!! (19 years ago, 11-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Obscene emoticons are my super power. They should make comic books about us. (19 years ago, 11-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Schpiffkraft Hakenkreuz
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(...) It would be a huge hit. The next X-Men or Spiderman. A whole franchise, movies, etc. (19 years ago, 11-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) $$$$ (That's an emoticon of the four-finger ring I'll be wearing after the second movie) (19 years ago, 11-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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"Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@rmspam...mspam.com> wrote in message news:IKz1qq.1yAA@lugnet.com... (...) I agree with this as well. As much as I hate the idea of neo-Nazi's marching down the main street of my town (even though there's only a (...) (19 years ago, 22-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I dunno about that. I haven't seen much of Ali G, but I read his interview with Buzz Aldrin. Extremely funny, but I don't think Aldrin is an idiot. (19 years ago, 22-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Schpiffkraft Hakenkreuz
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(...) Perhaps he was the one in ten? Tim (19 years ago, 22-Aug-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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