Subject:
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Re: Children and Violence
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:18:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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141 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> Hey Y'all:
> I just wonder if
> a highly controlled environment is the way to best achieve that goal.
I don't think that it is. The more controls in place on children, the less
practice they have at operating without controls.
> In that novel Ballard explores violence and mayhem as a kind of reasonable,
> or at least understandable, response to a very controlled environment.
I agree with him (though probably go farther). When I get into these
discussions, a few of which have been here, about how to guide children to
fruition, it ends up with most folks thinking that controlling behaviors x, y,
and z are good things, while I try to convince them that they're not.
Eventually, I ask people how they would respond if subject to such rules and
they stammer about how kids are different and _need_ this and such 'guidance'
and 'discipline.' (When, in fact, kids without coercion grow up quite nicely.)
The fact is that if some large person restricted _my_ movements to my room (for
example) until I had performed some tricks for the giant's pleasure (even if
the giant thought it was "for the best"), I would seek to either escape or
destroy the giant. Why would I expect it do be different for other humans?
What's worse, if I loved that oppressive giant (against all reason), then I
would be completely conflicted by those feelings and a life time of passive
agressive combat would take place until I felt up to my escape.
All of that turmoil and confusion does sometimes bubble over when circumstances
are particularly bad and violence ensues. It's a natural and certain outcome
of our societal age related bondage.
> So I am not at all sure about greater controls and censorship being the
> answer.
They create forbidden fruit and something against which to rebel.
> Somehow they developed a need to act out inappropriately -- and I
> happen to equate that problem with not having learned appropriate
> expressions of anger, and violence (yes, there are appropriate expressions
> of violence).
I agree. The mere fact that people have violent impulses defines this as
appropriate. We just need to know how to get it out of our system
productively. I'd guess that our innate violence is a hold-over from a less
civilized time...like yesterday.
> Everyone needs an outlet -- even if it's just a game of Sonic the Hedgehog
> or Doom on a video game console.
Interestingly, there is no demonstrated correlation between media violence and
human violence. You can dig up doctors and psychologists who assert such a
connection, but can't actually demonstrate it. Recall that the plural of
annecdote is not data.
> When we take away the normal expression of high spirits we allow people to
> become bottled up and thereby marginalize their feelings and behavior.
Yup. My son attended two Montessori schools for ~3 years and entered public
school this year. I have noticed a strong difference in the amount of
agression that he expresses on his off time. The difference that I think is
most important is that at those other schools actively discouraged a whole
class of play that they thought was overly "violent." Some refer to this as
the feminization of America. I'm not sure that's fair, but they have some
interesting things to say.
> Whatever a person's
> personal eccentricities might be, they need to understand that they are
> still part of the whole group and that in most cases the whole will value
> what they have to contribute.
Yes, people lose track of how important our innate social needs are. We really
are a social animal, but this seems contradictory to our modern self image.
If you're in the market to have small children around, you find how much safety
is emphasized. I think this is a related trend since it's a control on the
environment. When I grew up, I had the freedom to shove a screwdriver into an
electrical outlet and get killed. Since I had the ability to die, I learned
that some things were serious. Now, everyone has plastic plugs in place to
make that impossible. And those are only the most innocuous start to the
safety movement. But I think we need risk just like we need freedom when we're
young.
Chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Children and Violence
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| (...) And the less control they feel they have over their own environment. (...) Violence may be the expression of a pent up desire to control one's environment. It seems those most likely to commit egregious acts of violence are those who have been (...) (23 years ago, 30-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Children and Violence
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| Hey Y'all: I was just sitting here contemplating my navel when I began to think about violence and its causes. We have certainly been given a few jolts these past years and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. We have children shooting (...) (23 years ago, 29-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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