 | | The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | Here is an op-ed sure to make some folks foam... (URL) not me... This writer *gets* what the militia is. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | | (...) This is exactly why we will never see this particular form of attack again. Prior to this attack Pilots and crew had been taught that in a hijacking situation the best way to insure their own safty and the safty of the passangers was to do as (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | (...) For a while, anyway. Until the "general militia" gets apathetic again (which may take many years). (...) we (...) 7,000 (...) By all reports, the decision made by the passengers of flight 93 was only made after they found out there were more (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | ... however they did this without guns. So how does the firearms discussion get into this article? I suspect the author has some hidden agenda, and is trying to capitalize on the current rage. If so, shame on him ... Other than that, I think the (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | (...) One might wonder how much less destruction there would have been on 11 September if some or many of the passengers had been armed. Even assuming that the terrorists were also, there were many more passengers than madmen. I'd prefer those odds. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | | Hello Chris, (...) Given the fact that even in the Sep. 11 disaster, less people were probably killed than are killed in a "normal" year by use of guns in the US, I tend to prefer NOT to legalize taking firearms into planes. Maybe a few armed (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I think you're going to have a hard time proving that statistic to actually be true, or if it is, that it's a causal link, or if it is a causal link, that banning guns would actually make any difference (plowed ground alert). However, on a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I think you're going to have a hard time proving that statistic to actually be true, or if it is, that it's a causal link, or if it is a causal link, that low cholesterol fries would actually make any difference. :-) Chris (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) In 1999, there were 8,718 firearm related homocides in the US. So you're probably right. But the broad-picture statistics suggest that as the concealed-carry rate increases, the violent crime rate decreases. So I'd claim that that high number (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Speaking of which, I'm not too keen on what I seem to be hearing about the airline bailout bill. Some background... The exact story of why it is that the airlines are in charge of gate security and sort of *not* in charge as well is very (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I'm not very happy with what I've heard of this bail-out. I think that the airlines deserve reasonable compensation from the government for losses as a result of the forced grounding, and, while I recognize that the airlines to some degree (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —James Trobaugh
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I heard this great idea on the radio today. It apparently came from The heritage Foundation. Instead of just handing $15 billion to the airlines, make an advance purchase of about $16 billion worth of vouchers for airline tickets for (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | (...) But the effects of that decision outweigh the need for the individual to preserve that decision-making right, unless only the individual is going to be affected by the decision. That is, if a plane is to be hijacked and used to kill several (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) But, But... if Joe Smith decided not to pay, he isn't going to be flying. At least not with me, anyway. I certainly will not choose an airline that won't take the maximum steps to ensure my safety. I plan to quiz NWA quite closely about that. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —James Trobaugh
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) <snip> (...) Actually according the the AJC this is already happening: (URL) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | | | Hello Chris, (...) Well, I don't want to dive into a firearms discussion here. What I wanted to oppose is the idea that air travel is safer when firearms are allowed to be taken into planes by passengers. (...) And how can people working in (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Well, this is a specific instance of the general assertion "public activity X (in which strangers are thrown together and have to get along) is safer if some small fraction of the public is armed (and further, if the baddies aren't quite sure (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: [snippety] (...) Exactly, just like Australia's[1] Ansett Airlines: (URL) when a large company goes bankrupt, it's not only the shareholders that pay. ROSCO [1] OK, it was recently acquired by Air (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Ah yes, the "too big/important to fail" argument. (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | | | | | Hello Larry, (...) Well, that would probably hold some truth, if the baddies weren't also enabled to carry BETTER weapons by such a liberal regulation. (...) Well, so be it then ;-) (...) There is two problems with this approach, though: 1. Once (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | Greetings Horst, (...) I see that you oppose the idea. And I see that you don't want to substantiate such a claim. Fine. But I can and will (and have!) substantiated the opposite claim. People are in fact safer when guns are plentiful (at least in (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | | | Hello Chris, (...) Well, let me try and explain my rationale, then. I would say there is simply too much at stake on a plane in the air to just let anybody do with a gun as he pleases. What if a bullet hits the gas tanks? Don't you think it requires (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) Sheer madness! Bruce (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) Not following you there. The author was making a point about who the militia was, a point that many (with their prattle about the militia being exclusively the National Guard) miss, or worse, deliberately distort. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | Hello Larry, (...) Well, it seems I need to elaborate on this, then. First, the article states: (...) This is the right question to ask, and it is EXACTLY why I am so critical towards military action. A few paragraphs further down, you can read in (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate... —Tom Stangl
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| | | | (...) If those defenders had had a chance to have guns (even if many restrictions were placed as to gun type, load type, training, etc), they might have had a better chance of stopping the terrorists. Who knows, they MIGHT have had a chance to land (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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