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(...) Going on the assumption that abortion = murder, your argument is that an unconnected wrong justifies another. This requires that you prove any abortion = murder without condition (not to mention you are still saddled with proving one wrong (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) Yes. I also have no problem with someone taking the "after morning" pill within the first 2 weeks. (If someone waits longer than that it is their choice and they should deal with the consequeces of their choice.) (...) It is a trailing (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Well, okay. Are you hereby abandoning your previous arguments, in which you've asserted that increased gun control breeds increased crime? I just want to be clear on this. (...) Right, but is it a sustained military action (a la Desert Storm (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) So you're in favor of embryonic stem-cell research? That's a tangential point (purely for my own curiosity) but it meshes nicely with your overall argument. Anyway, why is a heartbeat the deciding factor? What distinct difference exists (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) That is pretty much what I just said. (...) Well the Israelis are using tanks and helicopters. (...) No, the constitution allows the government to call on the people when neccessary. (...) So? (...) Nukes are overrated. One of those defense (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) Once the cell mass has a heartbeat (which occurs after about 21 days) it is distinctly human. Prior to that the cell mass could technically become anything. (...) Maybe a DNA expert but it would be tough. (...) By your definition, not mine. (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) I think that's what you'd end up debating, unless you're trying to create or debate law which defines the "acceptable" point for an abortion to take place. Then you'd argue the points you brought up. In general, I think the issue that (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) True enough. I'm taking it as an abortion debate separate from the Iraq debate. (...) I don't accept "person potential" because, with the advent of cloning, most cells in your body have "person potential." It is not slippery slope reasoning to (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Heh. Our last gun control exchange ended with us becoming pals. Who knows what would happen next? You're 100% correct that my examples were anecdotal, which was kind of my point, too. You're also right that a quantity of rifles makes a (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) Who determines when it's discernably human? If I put a 64-cell embryo on your desk, would you be able to tell me that it's human? Who do you identify as a credible authority on determining humanness? By pre-brain-functional, I refer to brains (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Well, okay. But in that case you need to jettison your argument that increased gun control leads to (or causes) increased crime. (...) I'm not sure that I recall a sustained conflict between the full might of the military and either of those (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Here I am a closet animist and you think I don't know the source of that quote and you think that it is too pagan for me? :-) In any case, it's not the harm, but the immediate impending action that will cause harm that is so specific one can't (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) Probably a bad idea. By calling into question the definition of innocence, life, experience, and sentience, you're allowing an "in" that's off-topic. Fetuses are killed by civilian mothers and civilian doctors. The Iraqis in question were (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) Agreed. (...) Disagree. Once the cell mass is discernably human and has a heartbeat it is a person. What about the mentally handicapped? (...) So the age of a person determines their worth? (...) What about the physically handicapped? (...) I (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Interesting, personally I figure after the first month when the cell mass has a discernable heartbeat and human form it should be protected as a baby. (...) It was regarding gun ownership and freedom going hand in hand. It was along the lines (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) He's not much of a debater then, is he? If you're really interested in tackling this subject, I'm game. The first point of contention is that a blastocyst is not a person, and the elimination of a blastocyst is not the elimination of a person, (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) I'm okay with idea of abortion as the killing of a living thing, but not as murder. Murder can be defined as "the unlawful killing of another person." I deny that a foetus is a person with rights under the law. The foetus is not independent, (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Right now, it is easier for someone to break the law and purchase a Russian made machinegun than it is for someone to follow the law and purchase a US made handgun. (...) Now why would anyone want a cupcake if they couldn't eat it? Maybe it (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli wrote: <snip> (...) Oh here that is again-- And I will point out that, again, the Constitution wasn't written yesterday, it was written before paved roads, street lights, and Hostess Twinkies(tm)! So if we (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) OK, I have to ask because I really don't get this reply at all: (URL) do you apply that principle to the issue of Abortion. Obviously my opinion is that the freedom of choice is whether or not to have sex and that abortion is a euphemism for (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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