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(...) Once the cell mass has a heartbeat (which occurs after about 21 days) it is distinctly human. Prior to that the cell mass could technically become anything. (...) Maybe a DNA expert but it would be tough. (...) By your definition, not mine. (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) I think that's what you'd end up debating, unless you're trying to create or debate law which defines the "acceptable" point for an abortion to take place. Then you'd argue the points you brought up. In general, I think the issue that (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) True enough. I'm taking it as an abortion debate separate from the Iraq debate. (...) I don't accept "person potential" because, with the advent of cloning, most cells in your body have "person potential." It is not slippery slope reasoning to (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Heh. Our last gun control exchange ended with us becoming pals. Who knows what would happen next? You're 100% correct that my examples were anecdotal, which was kind of my point, too. You're also right that a quantity of rifles makes a (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Who determines when it's discernably human? If I put a 64-cell embryo on your desk, would you be able to tell me that it's human? Who do you identify as a credible authority on determining humanness? By pre-brain-functional, I refer to brains (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Well, okay. But in that case you need to jettison your argument that increased gun control leads to (or causes) increased crime. (...) I'm not sure that I recall a sustained conflict between the full might of the military and either of those (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Here I am a closet animist and you think I don't know the source of that quote and you think that it is too pagan for me? :-) In any case, it's not the harm, but the immediate impending action that will cause harm that is so specific one can't (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) Probably a bad idea. By calling into question the definition of innocence, life, experience, and sentience, you're allowing an "in" that's off-topic. Fetuses are killed by civilian mothers and civilian doctors. The Iraqis in question were (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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(...) Agreed. (...) Disagree. Once the cell mass is discernably human and has a heartbeat it is a person. What about the mentally handicapped? (...) So the age of a person determines their worth? (...) What about the physically handicapped? (...) I (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Interesting, personally I figure after the first month when the cell mass has a discernable heartbeat and human form it should be protected as a baby. (...) It was regarding gun ownership and freedom going hand in hand. It was along the lines (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) He's not much of a debater then, is he? If you're really interested in tackling this subject, I'm game. The first point of contention is that a blastocyst is not a person, and the elimination of a blastocyst is not the elimination of a person, (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) I'm okay with idea of abortion as the killing of a living thing, but not as murder. Murder can be defined as "the unlawful killing of another person." I deny that a foetus is a person with rights under the law. The foetus is not independent, (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Right now, it is easier for someone to break the law and purchase a Russian made machinegun than it is for someone to follow the law and purchase a US made handgun. (...) Now why would anyone want a cupcake if they couldn't eat it? Maybe it (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli wrote: <snip> (...) Oh here that is again-- And I will point out that, again, the Constitution wasn't written yesterday, it was written before paved roads, street lights, and Hostess Twinkies(tm)! So if we (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) OK, I have to ask because I really don't get this reply at all: (URL) do you apply that principle to the issue of Abortion. Obviously my opinion is that the freedom of choice is whether or not to have sex and that abortion is a euphemism for (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How to start a fire.
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) " jug jigga jug jigga jug jigga jug jigga JAH JAH!! jiggidy jug jigga jug jigga jug jigga JAHH JAHHHHH!!! " :) Still smile anytime I even think about it... Dave K (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) You are absolutely right Dave! The statistics do not show any positive or negative one way or the other for or against gun control. The funny thing is that only further increases my belief that gun control is all about Government control over (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) In the words of Strong Bad: "Holy Crap!". That's an average of nearly 250 per day! Dang. By those standards we should've killed, what? 20-25K Iraqis and we've only bumped off 1000? We're under way under par! I'd say that our 1000 is *progress* (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) But again, this is just anecdotal. What of the lessons taught by the Warsaw Ghetto? One gun against many. The purpose of keeping arms is hopefully cumulative amongst many partipants, not just a few lone nutters. In quantity, many rifles make a (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Probably because "'An it harm none, do what thou will" is too pagan for y'all. Besides, the former is part of French jurisprudence. -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 17-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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