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(...) Touche! Can we send them David Hasslehoff and call us even? Dave! (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) I assume that you are discounting the two blaringly obvious examples for a reason? Germany? Japan? The latter we did literally bomb into submission (WoMD, to add some irony). (...) That we have committed this far (foolishly) it would seem a (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) I think it depends on how you spin the terms democracy and ideal. If you spin them the way I would, I'd say that Germany after WWII is an example. But they had sort of a democracy before. And I don't know about Japanese civics (except the (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) An American defeat is not an option (1); but the victory may be Pyrrhic if this thing goes on through the Summer and/or with an ever increasing rate of casualties - in many ways, that could be even worse than a defeat. :-/ Pedro (1) - Really, (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) We got Dezi Arnez out of the deal, can't be all bad... (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) One (somewhat) recent success story of US inteventionist warfare was the spectacular liberation of Cuba from the evil clutches of Spain. And look how well that turned out! Dave! (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) Agreed (...) <snip> (...) I'd like to discuss where Saddam would be if the 'willing' stopped their war now. He's been saying "God is on our side!" and if the willing stop, SH will be, well, I don't know where he'll be, but I feel that it won't (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) Can you cite even one example of where this has happened before? Where else have we bombed people into accepting democracy? True, the absence of precedence doesn't make the occurrence of such a democracy impossible, but I would suggest the (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) I'm not sure that's true. I think it's more of wanting to take the best next step from wherever you find yourself. Before the violence commenced, Larry thought the best step was not to start the violence. Now, given that we're going to be (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Well, it is a simplification of things -- but the pro-peace movement also needs its own soundbite. "No blood for oil!" has been a kind of code for larger issues, obviously. Ignoring ethical concerns for now, longer-term I can't see the (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) That's just being a pro-war accomplice after the fact. Sorry, no previous moral opposition gives anyone moral safety to now just go ahead and support this great evil. No one would delight in american defeat -- that's madness. I presume defeat (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) Along those lines: (URL) opposed getting into this war but now that we're in it I want to win. Unlike some here, I suspect, who would delight in an American defeat. (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Maybe I'm getting my timeframe messed up, though I understand that bin Laden's particular beef is with the continued US military presence in the region (apparently greatly increased following Gulf War I). Dave! (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) Watching CNN all weekend, except Sunday when I watched PBS, and the other political shows on NBC and CBS... Constant theme now--"We tried the fast approach, and were hopeing that (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) I can’t find a cite , but I thought the US bases dated back to WW2? Scott A (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | In the name of freedom
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Iraq - In the shadow of war: backlash against human rights (URL) the military action by the USA, UK and their allies began in Iraq on 20 March, a backlash against certain human rights has been witnessed around the world. These include: * attacks on (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) I'm just not familiar enough with Blair to say, beyond I suspect he likes the idea of acting tough. Bush probably has several agendas, though the weight of each is unknown: Inherited hostility: The enemy of my father is my enemy. Though Bush (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Interestingly, there *IS* an undeniable link between Saddam and the actions and al-Qaeda; bin Laden has explicitly stated that his motives derive in part from his disgust at the overbearing presence of US military in Saudia Arabia. Of course, (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Don't you just love our freedom loving allies? Turkey: End sexual torture against women in custody! (URL) A (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Even that funded by Pakistan? (...) Me too. I'd love to hear what he has to say. Likewise for SH. Do you think Bush would want us to hear about their version of events? (...) Why just "to the United States and her citizens"? (...) Evidence? (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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