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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <37796883.7A114758@v...er.net>... (...) And of course I replied in kind... Here's my reply: (...) Thanks for the response. I suppose I am close to being a closet Libertarian. I think most of my discomfort has been (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) This point is valid. There is no perfect society and Libertarianism does not claim to be able to achieve one. It merely claims to be able to make things better. (...) Answer this question yourself, please. I know why it failed. I suspect you (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) OK, OK, I give in. I'll feel compassion for those people in the US that for reasons beyond their control can't afford to take care of themselves. All 2 of them. That was a flippant remark, but it makes a point. If you want my help, you have to (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) No. (...) Yes and no. (...) No. There is no right to charity. A charity may feel a moral obligation to help, but that moral obligation is something between them and their benefactors. A charity will set conditions under which it provides goods (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Ignoring the minimum wage issue, who cares if the only jobs available are minimum wage? I've worked for varying amounts in my life. If you work for 35 years making $30k per year (sorry, that should probably be $40-50k/year if we're talking a (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No, I think he's saying that, in a perfect libertopia, other people who help these people of their own free will. That does not imply that ABC have rights to those goods. (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) His savings are gone so soon? What did A do for 35 years? I have only been actively saving for a short while now and I could last a few months without my job, minimum. Inside of a year I'll be able to last a lot longer. Why would A have so (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Your little moral problems are a sucker's trap, because you haven't stated enough assumptions and preconditions, so whatever I say will be twisted around. But hey, look up sucker in the dictionary... see that picture? that's me. (...) Why? No one (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Oh, come on!! You CANNOT have a "perfect" society with more than a small number of people!! It is imposible! No matter what, there will be some that take advantage of it. Why do you think Communism failed? Any type of society that relies on (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) So you are saying that these people have the right to the care that they need. Isn't charity the giving of free goods? Are you saying that these people have a right to free goods? (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think that in a perfect liberatopia, all three of these people would have no problem getting the care they need, through charity. Person A may still be helped by some kind of unemployment coverage. Person B's family should also invest in a (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) OK, you state "people do not have a RIGHT to free goods." I am simplying stating that some people, through no fault of their own, do not have the ability to pay for those goods but, in the name of humanity, should "have a RIGHT to free goods". (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Admirable quality, I wish more humans felt this way. People *should* feel this way, as it is good for all. (...) Why? Because he feels the government should try to take care of the people it was created to protect and serve? I think you, (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Man, Larry, I go away for a few days, and this explodes on my e-mail. :) Oh, and I agree with Larry 100%, even if I am a Republican (Some moral differences with the Libertarians, but nothing us "right-wingers" can't work out!). By the way, not all (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I have a huge problem with the characterisation of my cogent and lucid statements (:-))as inane, or gibberish. Perhaps to someone who'd rather not honor property rights and doesn't understand why property rights matter, they're gibberish. But (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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"Christopher L. Weeks" wrote: <snip> (...) OK, the first person who knows this song wins the debate: "...i've been called a communist because i'm left-handed/that's the hand to use.../well, nevermind." other lines (if you need a hint): "i've been (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Ugh, I go on a 5 day vacation, and I get back to this! Oh well! :) (...) It doesn't matter if "that argument is dead in the water" (I don't think it is), the founding fathers put the second amendment in just in case the government gets out of (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Have you read Larry's response to my question about the ideals of Libertarianism? Your last comment is a gross mischaracterization of Larry's position. If you read one of his other responses, you will even see that he does in fact support (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Which basic issue is he circumventing? I thought the basic issue was determining who should pay for Random Joe's medical care. Larry thinks Random Joe should and Thomas thinks that Larry should. (...) Hippocrates developed the oath, but I (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I have a huge problem with this inane argument. Larry is avoiding the basic issue and circumventing it with property gibberish. It is simply this - all Doctors take a Hypocratic oath - that they will provide medical service irregardless of the (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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