 | | States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Erik Olson
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| | | A co-worker called my attention to a scary article yesterday. I believe it was the Dec 7 issue of ComputerWorld tabloid (URL below.) The State of North Carolina has determined that residents must be licensed by the state to sell on online auction (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Erik Olson
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| | | | | Oops. Massachusetts is a Commonwealth. Chapter 100 also exempts "casual and isolated sales by an owner", small comfort that that is. (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Jim Piccuito
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| | | | | | (...) I have read chapter 100 for MASS. and as you read through it really goes into detail about the laws. I believe that these laws are only for auctions trying to make big profit. So according to the statement, exempts are "casual isolated sales (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Ben Roller
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| | | | | | (...) So pretty much it only applies to eBay powersellers? Not very comforting. I technically live in one state, but currently reside in another. Which state's rules would apply to me? Is it a misrepresentation to list one state in eBay and actually (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Jim Piccuito
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| | | | | | (...) Every State has some kind of law or regulation on Auctions. Some states are different than others. Say I live in Maine, but really I am selling from MASS. MASS law says I must have a non-resident licence to auction any item for profit. Really, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Will Hess
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| | | | | Ugghhhhh! Until someone (who can afford to lose!) challenges these laws, sites like eBay are going to become little more than online professional flea markets. I pity the cyber-granny that attempts to auction off some antique only to be slapped with (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | (...) Hmm... Just goes to show how idiotic, ignorant, and totally useless government is when when it is too big, too powerful, and has too much money. "You're under arrest, Mr. Sanburn." "What?!? May I ask why?" "You violated Section 456.98.0898 (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | Can it not be argued that it is ebay that is doing the auctioning? (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Jim Piccuito
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| | | | | | (...) Sorry to say but, Ebay is a server they provide the services we are the ones in control of the auctions we sell. Just like a web page, AOL, ect. is the server. You are the one that controls the page. (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) No, eBay is the auctioneer. You don't submit bids to the sellers, you submit bids to eBay. I doubt you need to get a license (which in NC requires training and passing a test) to hire an auctioneer to dispose of poor deceased aunt Mary's (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —James Brown
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| | | | | | | | (...) Actually, no. Ebay is "only a venue" - which is the electronic equivalent of an auction house. They provide a "place" and advertising, whereas any actual auctioning that's done is by the people who buy time. James (URL) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | (...) If I am the auctioneer, and not eBay, then why can't I set the terms of bidding (minimum raises, how the auction ends, etc)? It seems to me that semantically, eBay is the auctioneer. (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —James Brown
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| | | | | | | | (...) ones (...) the (...) Ebay determines the conditions under which you may auction things using their venue (including min bids, increments, etc), but they do not actually auction anything. They sell eSpace to auctioneers. This is (among other (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —David Eaton
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Sorry to jump in... just putting in $.02-- I'm of the mind to think that legally, it could be arguable that ebay is doing the actual auctioning... I think the best argument is the one previously presented: how is it different from hiring a (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —James Brown
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Hmm. I hadn't been arguing this in a legal sense, actually. Legally I haven't a clue who's doing what. :) My main reason for thinking the auctioneer is the seller is that all eBay provides is an interface between buyers and sellers. Any (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Doug Finney
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| | | | | | | | (...) But isn't that analogous to real-world auction houses? They typically aren't actually auctioning anything either, just providing a venue and a caller (didn't want to call them auctioneers to avoid term confusion) in exchange for a percentage (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —James Brown
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| | | | | | | | (...) The difference is that eBay (unlike a caller) isn't doing any flogging/promotion for the item. That's my main point. eBay provides an interface, but that's it. My other point (only implied, mostly) is that eBay will (IMHO) promote the idea (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Ray Sanders
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| | | | | | | | (...) Which is fine until someone somes along and tries to sell something not within the TOS. Then eBay 'censors' the seller & auction by removing it. eBay is trying to walk a fine-line between having no responsibility (a common-carrier auction site (...) (25 years ago, 16-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | (...) I think there are arguments against that. eBay must just provide the service, but they also run the auction. The seller sets some of the parameters (starting bid, duration of auction, visibility), but the seller does not set bid increments, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) (starting (...) While I would never underestimate the grasping perfidity of a politician of any party other than Libertarian, this may well be one of those urban legends in the making. One which, 8 months from now, we will equate to the "Post (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | (...) I'll have to dig up the article in our paper. I'm not sure who they were actually using for source material. The article seemed serious, and it seemed like it was researched and not just someone rambling. (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | (...) I'd say this was real, here is the text of an announcement from eBay: (...) copied from (URL) Frank Filz ---...--- Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com (business only please) Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com (25 years ago, 16-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Erik Olson
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| | | | | | Thanks for pointing this out, Frank. How's that for closure? Do we know anybody in North Carolina who could be nudged into writing their legislators? In lugnet.market.auction, Frank Filz writes: (e-bay annoucement copied from (URL) (25 years ago, 16-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) There was an article in the Raleigh (NC) News and Observer within the last two weeks about this. What it said was that "buying to auction" is what is covered, thus, someone auctioning off their old goods is definitely ok. I suspect they also (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Eric Joslin
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| | | | (...) Umm, not true. You put it up for auction. You put it on display (in, say, a store). Someone can bid without going to the public showing. The law is only meant to guarantee that bidders *can* examine the lot for bidding *if the desire*. If (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | Re: States Go After Online Auctions; $1000 fines —Erik Olson
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| | | | I got a little carried away. Sure, you could easily make the lots viewable locally. Still at best, the Massachusetts law (and others) is ill-worded to apply to online auctions. Which underscores the real risk, that existing laws will be clumsily (...) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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