 | | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) This raises an important question. We should have a standard format for submodels for the TLG models. MPD or inlining? Given my limited knowledge, which is more user-friendly? can LDraw/LEdit/LDLite read an inlined file without the user having (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) Then I would like to ask someone to explain to me inlining.. you only inline the lines of the submodel...how do you get them all in one file, etc? -Tim Courtney ldraw.org Project Coordinator (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 (25 years ago, 1-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) Sounds good to me. If you could, Steve, include an mpd compiler and splitter in the next version of LDAO that could make things easier for users. Oh, and what is happening with the rumored but illusive LDraw II project?? -Tim Courtney (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Sounds like a good feature to have around as well. What is the format difference between inlining and mpd anyways? They both contain multiple ldraw models in one file... (sorry I sound a little clueless...but all I use LDraw/LDAO for is making (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) Inline PLEASE!!! I know hothing about MPD except you have to split the file. Inline, you just go to the LDAO tools menu, click Inline, check the lines you wnat inlined, clik OK(or something to that efect), and your home free. Pretty easy if (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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I assume you use LDAO?? what you do is have a model that you're working on(normally one you've finished) and the submodels in the models folder(not neccessary though). You have the main file of the model highlighted, you go to tools, you scroll down (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) I'd recommend going with MPD. LDLite will render a (properly formatted) MPD file, and the MPD format allows downloaders the possibility of splitting the file back into its separate pieces. Inline is a one-way operation. Steve (25 years ago, 2-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Is there any way to reverse the inlining to the original file (lossless outlining, I guess it would be) using the comment that the inlining function writes? Does the matrix math work in this direction? Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 2-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) Actually, Steve, it isn't one way if you don't mind doing a little cutting and pasting :) So if you really think MPD is that much better than what you did, where can I get it to see if I like it, I mean there must be some sort of program to (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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Not only cutting and pasting, you have to know where the last line of an inlined file is. Scott R Dennett wrote in message <199906021848140350....te.net>... (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) Info: --- Inlining: Inlining is generally considered a "one-way" process - though the inlined section can be manually cut out and pasted into a separate file if the beginning and end of the inlined section is known. It is directly viewable in (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Inlining isn't a format, it's an operation. A file-reference (type 1 line) is replaced with the contents of the referenced file, but the color and transform (position, rotation, scaling) from the original command are applied to each line from (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Outlining can only be done with manual intervention, because there's no final delimiter on the inlined code. So the human has to select the code to outline. I *think* the matrix math can be reversed, but I'm not sure. I don't know if there is (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) That only works if there is a single inline. And it doesn't actually undo the inline, it just creates a similar subfile. (...) Search the lugnet archive. Jacob's tools are at (URL). Onyx's M-Peedy is at (URL). (...) Generally, yes. You can (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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On Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:12:49 GMT, legoverse@geocities.com (Terry K) wrote: [Good descriptions of inlining/MPD snipped] (...) And if you use a ZIP archive, you have to unzip. Unzipping is generally more convenient than splitting an MPD, for the user. (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Whoops, I almost didn't read that. :-, But a cut and paste won't necessarily restore the origin of the sub-model, will it? My main reason for using sub-models is to place the origin in a weird spot, usually for rotation purposes. I agree that (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) I you're running Emacs, you can use my LDraw-mode to do inlining. And you can even choose the number of decimal places to preserve! It defaults to two, though. Inlining in Emacs has the obvious advantage that you see what you get while still (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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Following up myself to resolve a dangling footnote... (...) [1] In the next version of LDAO, the stand-alone inliner will allow you better control over the inlining process. Specifically, there will be options/buttons to: - Select all subfiles - (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) That was my point exactly: the inline operation applies the transform information from the reference statement on to each of the inlined statements. So cut and paste can only move the modified lines into a file with the same name. (...) That's (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Sure! But what kind of support? Aside from "Open Subfile", I mean. (...) :-D Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Well, you can currently edit MPD files -- if you have LDLite hooked up as the viewer, it deals with the MPD issues. Hmmm. I haven't played around with this very much, I should do so. But I was thinking of a multi-window MPD editor, that would (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) I think so too. (...) Then there is that. (...) Oops. Quite right. (...) That is assuming the file will be viewable online of course. Which would be a good idea. And, if it uses lugnet to archive them, will be just so. Hmm.... have the server (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) This will be great! Would there be any way to add an option to leave out the file information comments lines of subfiles (or maybe just all comments) when inlining? If you use several levels of subparts when creating a part, then inline it, it (...) (25 years ago, 5-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) I agree. It would be nice to have the capability to do a 'clean' inline. -- Terry K -- (25 years ago, 5-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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The matrix math will not always invert, although if the matrix is a pure rotation (with no scaling or shears) the transpose of the matrix is the inverse. A better solution would be for the inliner to apply a start and a stop tag for each inlined (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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I'll put in my two-cents: gzip'ed tar files would be an excellent replacement for MPD. And Winzip handles them OK. -gyug (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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Tim Courtney: (...) MPD. Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 7-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) I thought about that, but I was concerned about the burden of differentiating between comments and random extensions to LDraw (ie, new meta-commands). Maybe LDAO should provide/maintain a list of known meta-commands? Then the Inliner could (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: [ldraw.org] Progress
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(...) Well, it looks like there is a valid difference of opinion here about which format, and 2 are rather prevalent. I think we should continue discussing advantages and disadvantages and eventually vote on it. I would put my vote in for MPD if (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Adding a closing tag (and unique ID) is a good idea, and something that should have been done from the start. It would solve the problem of identifying the chunk of code to reverse out, and restoring the original referencing file would be (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) That is an interesting idea. -- Terry K -- (25 years ago, 7-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Hmmm. I wonder where the emphasis goes in that sentence.... Steve (25 years ago, 8-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Oh, right. Sorry. THAT IS AN INTERESTING IDEA. (1) :-) -- Terry K -- 1. Do I tend to over-emphasise things? (25 years ago, 8-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <375bc53d.299725817@...et.com>... (...) In which case MPD would be better anyway. (...) (25 years ago, 14-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Lossless outlining (Was: [ldraw.org] Progress)
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(...) Agreed completely. For serious file-sharing, MPD is way better than inlining. Steve (25 years ago, 14-Jun-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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